# Sites arguing collective interpretation of 2nd Amendment wanted.

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sites-arguing-collective-interpretation-of-2nd-amendment-wanted/632977>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [August 28, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sites-arguing-collective-interpretation-of-2nd-amendment-wanted/632977 "2012-08-28T23:47:35Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\
**Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sites-arguing-collective-interpretation-of-2nd-amendment-wanted/632977/1 "2012-08-28T23:47:35Z")

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I actually believe in the individual rights interpretation of the Second Amendment; but if an idea is sound it can stand criticism. In order to avoid confirmation bias, I’d like to read what arguments there are for the collective interpretation. Specifically, I’d like to read any cites claiming that the Framers of the Constitution considered, and explicitly rejected, a private individual right to keep and bear arms outside of a government organized militia.

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**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sites-arguing-collective-interpretation-of-2nd-amendment-wanted/632977/2 "2012-08-29T01:39:48Z")

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If you haven’t read [this outstanding article](http://constitution.org/mil/embar2nd.htm#T40) on the 2[sup]nd[/sup], I urge you to take a peek at it. It’s fairly concise and more than worth the time taken to read it.

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**Author:** ![Abatis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d78d45/32.png) [@Abatis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abatis)\
**Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sites-arguing-collective-interpretation-of-2nd-amendment-wanted/632977/3 "2012-08-30T03:25:46Z")

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> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> I’d like to read any cites claiming that the Framers of the Constitution considered, and explicitly rejected, a private individual right to keep and bear arms outside of a government organized militia.

Those cites simply do not exist.

The collective right interpretation was created in the federal courts in 1942 with the “militia right” and “state’s right” inventions of _Cases v. U.S_, [**131 F.2d 916**](http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/gunviol/docs/cases.pdf) (1 st Cir. 1942) and _U.S. v. Tot_, [\*\*131 F.2d 261 \*\*](http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/gunviol/docs/tot.pdf)(3 rd Cir. 1942).

Those lower court opinions held sway for some 66 odd years until _DC v Heller_ re-re-re-affirmed the Supreme Court’s unwavering “individual right” interpretation and invalidated _Tot_ and _Cases_ and their progeny.

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**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\
**Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sites-arguing-collective-interpretation-of-2nd-amendment-wanted/632977/4 "2012-08-30T16:12:26Z")

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A lot of documentation here, including dissenting opinions of court cases:

[Sources on the Second Amendment](http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z2/sources-volokh.htm#top)