I was referring to this :
Which is, IMO, a pefectly reasonable comment.
Saying that you didn’t care for X, but that many people did, as did critics is NOT the same as not recommending something and giving reasons for it.
Customer: “Would you recommend 6FU? I’ve heard of it.”
Video Store Worker: “I didn’t really care for it, but it won some awards and it’s a popular item for rental. It’s about a family who owns a funeral home.”
OR
Customer:" Would you recommend 6FU? I’ve heard of it."
Video Store Worker: " What a horrible show. It’s all about the people in it burying their feelings six feet under. Get it? It’s unpleasant to watch. It’s message is ‘life sucks; kill yourself now.’ I wouldn’t piss on any of the characters if they were on fire. Will that be all or would you care for some microwave popcorn?"
There are still video stores?
For some reason, after reading the thread title, I keep picturing lissener as Alex in A Clockwork Orange.
Well, obviously you are allowed to have your own opinion. However, when you hold an opinion that is markedly different from a widely-held consensus view, you should be aware of that, and act accordingly.
For instance, there is a general consensus that The Princess Bride is an extremely entertaining movie. (Which I agree with). Now, suppose I think that TPB is garbage. Well, I’m perfectly allowed to have that opinion. In fact, if I were to start a thread entitled “The Princess Bride is garbage, and here’s why”, and explain my controversial opinion, well, that would be an interesting thread and a good use for Cafe Society.
On the other hand, if I then go into a discussion of, say, Gigli, and say “Wow, this movie was SO AWFUL! It was almost as bad as From Justin to Kelly or The Princess Bride”, I’m not posting in a very useful fashion. First of all, I’m likely to derail the discussion of Gigli. Secondly, when one mentions movie/book/TV show as a point of reference, there’s an implication that the referent is a well-known work with a well-known critical/public consensus. Thus, it’s quite reasonable to use The Princess Bride as a comparison-point for other movies… ie, “Stardust is a lot like The Princess Bride, but not quite as good”. If you post just that, there’s a clear implication that Stardust is a very good movie. Someone who hates The Princess Bride should NOT post just that one sentence, even if they happen to hate Stardust even more than TPB, making that sentence technically correct from their point of view.
Also, when you have an opinion that differs from the general consensus, it strikes me (although this may be just me) as the height of arrogance to randomly mention that opinion in passing without in any way acknowledging its unusuality. When you are comparing SFU to Stephen King, and talking about Stephen King dismissively, you’re basically framing the argument as “well, Stephen King is a hack. We all know that. That’s settled. That’s one of the starting points of this discussion. Now, let’s compare him to SFU…”
(And, yes, I would argue that there is in fact a general consensus that Stephen King, while no Shakespeare, is an extremely talented storyteller with a gift for crafting characters and situations that really get under your skin. There are plenty of threads about him, and most of the people posting in those threads talk about how much like at least some of his works, or at least some parts of some of his works…)
You make a great number of assumptions, all of them wrong.
Again, all of your assumptions are wrong.
Wow. I’m bookmarking this thread as an example of some of the most bizarrely irrational misreadings and twisted assumptions I think I’ve ever come across here.
I hope some day that I will stop being surprised that expressing a personal opinion in this forum almost guarantees a freeforall of bad blood and defensiveness. (No, come to think of it, I hope this always takes me by surprise.)
Anyway, now we have to derail the discussion about the show and talk about me, since that seems to be the consensus hijack. I resent being put in a position where I have to defend myself from kneejerk assumptions and personal aspersions, when, again, all I’ve done is expressed a personal opinion about an artwork. I haven’t said your baby is ugly or those jeans make you look fat. Unless you’re Alan Ball or Peter Krause, your ruffled feathers are irrational and, frankly, childish.
So I mount my defense; somehow it feels like it costs me some personal dignity to thus acknowledge the childish and irrational posts I’m responding to. My terse responses, immediately above, are terse because such irrational assumptions seemed to be unworthy of response. However, against my better judgment, I’ll go ahead and respond more completely. And, necessarily, defensively.
“Recommend,” to me, implies an active thing: when a customer asks me to recommend something, I recommend things that I like. I won’t be thus recommending 6’U. When someone asks me, out of the blue as it were, “Is 6’U any good?” I respond: “It has a big following/It’s a popular renter/[other variation on the popular consensus], but I didn’t like it much.” It kinda pisses me off that some of you take as a concrete, inarguable fact your outrageous assumption that I would not say such a thing.
Further, it’s no skin off my back which movies people rent: I’m not losing any business by talking them out of renting a particular movie; they’ll just choose another. Further, my customers expect me to be honest, not to just hard-sell them something popular. Now, obviously, there are exceptions: I can usually tell when the Stepford wife just wants her choice validated, so I tell her, “Yeah, A Good Year is a masterpiece for the ages; Keeping Mum will change your life.” Most of the time, however, if a customer asks me for my opinion about a movie/show/whatever, I give them my opinion. You’d be surprised, apparently, how few of them assume that I’m stating some kind of inarguable fact, or party-line consensus: IRL, people seem to know when a personal opinion is a personal opinion. Many people (you might want to sit down for this) even rent a title after I have responded to their request for my opinion with less than effusive enthusiasm.
So, enough about me? Is there anything further to discuss about 6’U, since that’s the titular subject of this thread?
One afternoon last summer I walked from my office to the parking deck and saw two transit cops standing near the elevator, blocking the open door. Someone (I’m guessing a homeless guy) had taken a big, messy shit on the elevator floor. I took the stairs instead. True story.
Posted by Lissener
It isn’t art, it’s entertainment. It’s a television series for rental in a video store. There’s no reason why it should conform to your ideals of ‘art’.
Everyone (except me in my earlier post) is giving you thoughtful discussion as to why they enjoyed (or not) this entertainment. They are writing in direct response to what you write, not necessarily what you mean.
You are being rather aggressive. Not everyone will have the same standards as you. We don’t expect television to be art, we’re not disappointed.
No-one is having a go at you personally. You seem to think we are.
You know how you do your job we don’t.
We only know what you tell us and it seemed, from your own posts, that you were behaving in a certain way. If that’s not how it is, then we can’t help the impression you gave us.
Seriously, it’s a TV show and it’s finished. I liked it, you didn’t. I will never convince you that I found it entertaining. You will never convince me that it should have conformed to a higher standard.
Its fans? Cite?
No, that just proves I’m still (irrationally) an optimist. I watch almost everything I watch hoping–no, expecting–that it will be good. Otherwise I wouldn’t watch it; I’d move on to the next thing on my list.
No, not really. I watch (clicking of abacus) about 1,000 movies a year. About 1% of them are not crap. Of course, the remaining 99% are varying degrees of crap, and some of them are crap on a motorcycle. But 99/1 seems about right to me.
Whoosh.
And how, exactly, did I suggest anything else? (And yes, the KB character is about the only character I liked.)
Sigh. Colder and colder; you’re now in a different time zone from the point. I never, never never never never, said that story, or change in character over time, or whatever definition you want to concoct for it, was bad. I said that “what happens next” was ***ALL ***that 6’U had going for it. When the ONLY reason you watch is to find resolution for a cliffhanger–repeating myself here, but you obviously didn’t read it the first time–then you’re in soapopera country. And change in a character is only good if it’s good. IOW, I think Stephen King is terrible writer because his characters ring so false. Sure they go through changes, but only to move the plot along. Ditto All My Children, ditto 6’U.
You know what? Shame on you for taking your assumption that I don’t do the same thing as an inarguable given.
Um, cite that I said so? My opinion is the one being solicited.
Again, shame on you for this.
Um, no. They’re gonna rent something anyway. I’m supposed to answer a question honestly, if only so they know if their taste agrees with mine for future such exchanges.
No; with your irrational *assumption *of how I express my opinions to a customer.
And some customer do realize that I don’t like all the same things they like. But I always try to explain *why *I don’t like something, if they ask, so it’s a learning experience all around. And let me just say I’m eternally grateful I don’t have you for a customer, although if I did I’d figure out pretty quickly that you’re one of those who doesn’t actually want an honest opinion; you just want me to validate your choice. That’s cool, I handle those customers with skill as well.
(FTR, the only titles I actively try to talk people out of renting, unsolicited, are Black Dahlia, Lady in the Water, and The Brothers Grimm, and then only if they’re regular customers whom I’m pretty sure won’t like them, and *then * I tell them why, so they can take my advice or leave it.)
Missed the edit window.
They are insulting you now, Lissener, again, in response to your own posts.
Get a grip man - It’s only TV.
Sorry, that’s art. It may not be *great *art, but as The Singing Detective, Buffy, and *NYPDBlue *have shown us, it certainly is capable of being great art.
Right. So it’s a good thing I never said it should; only that it doesn’t.
This is the single point I’m trying to make.
That’s cool; I don’t see that it’s relevant.
I’m not suggesting that they’re having a go at me-as-me; only that, rather than discuss the show, we’re discussing the person who expressed an unpopular opinion. It’s personal in that sense; that this thread has become about the messenger, not the message.
Of course, but you could read more carefully; you could ask instead of assume; you could give some benefit of the doubt, rather than, what, the deficit of the doubt; you could make an effort not to assume the worst, in the absence of complete information. You could discuss the show instead of the poster.
So . . . it’s a good thing that I have never had any such intention. I shared a personal opinion about a show I didn’t like. Get over it.
For comprehension now: eleanorigby said I was running down the show’s fans. I asked her to point out where I had done so. That’s what “cite” means.
(snip)
Over it.
I agree…I don’t think I have ever seen a show wrap up as well, with absolutely no wiggle room for another episode…and I loved the last episodes of MASH, Mary Tyler Moore and even Frasier and Friends and Cheers…
But that last episode of Six Feet Under is a milestone in great series finales.
Definitely went out on a high note. And again, the first season was great. One of the reasons I kept watching is that the first season was so awesome I was hoping the slough of despond the rest of the seasons dragged me through would be worth it, that the last season would make it all worthwhile. The finale was pretty dang good, but still didn’t balance out the middle bits, fyask me.
I agree- I watched in awed silence as the final montage played out.
I thought the seasons had their highs and lows- some story arcs I aboslutely hated- but it was absolutely compelling to watch.
And that, I think, is the end of that.