# Six Imams Ejected for Praying **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360 "2006-11-21T23:44:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/21 "2006-11-22T03:17:12Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Well, what does it bring to mind? Am I missing something, or is it common knowledge that terrorists pray in airports before boarding doomed flights? [/QUOTE] Gosh, guess you showed me. I can see now that it really brings _nothing_ to mind, so I don’t know what synapses fired in my mind instigating me to type what I did. Now that your oh-so-poignant question has resulted me in seeing the light I suddenly realize that when I thnk about it, a bunch of Muslim guys in the U.S. praying before getting on the same plane should have resulted in the same benign non-thoughts that would have been triggered by six kids with Harvard sweatshirts reading books, six teenage girls listenting to iPods, six teenage boys playing video games, six men all drinking coffee, or 30 people carrying black briefcases. Whew. Now I feel so…so..politically correct. Ordinarily that would bother me, but now that I’ve turned my brain to the “off” position, it’s not so bad. At least I can see your point better. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/22 "2006-11-22T03:22:27Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Now that your oh-so-poignant question has resulted me in seeing the light I suddenly realize that when I thnk about it, a bunch of Muslim guys in the U.S. praying before getting on the same plane should have resulted in the same benign non-thoughts that would have been triggered by six kids with Harvard sweatshirts reading books, six teenage girls listenting to iPods, six teenage boys playing video games, six men all drinking coffee, or 30 people carrying black briefcases. [/QUOTE] Going by numbers alone, any of those groups (except for the men drinking coffee) are more likely to be American Muslims than American Mormons. Are you afraid of Mormons hijacking the plane? Would you pass a note to the flight crew if you saw a few guys with black nameplates with white lettering? Would you go into a melt-down panic if you heard them say a prayer starting with “Heavenly Father” or “Eternal Father?” Anyway, where would they hijack it _to_? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/23 "2006-11-22T03:28:21Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Going by numbers alone, any of those groups (except for the men drinking coffee) are more likely to be American Muslims than American Mormons. Are you afraid of Mormons hijacking the plane? Would you pass a note to the flight crew if you saw a few guys with black nameplates with white lettering? Would you go into a melt-down panic if you heard them say a prayer starting with “Heavenly Father” or “Eternal Father?” Anyway, where would they hijack it _to_? [/QUOTE] No. No. No. And, I haven’t the foggiest. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/24 "2006-11-22T03:30:36Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] So, **Jackmanii** , to what degree am I an idiot or provoking an incident on purpose when I travel on vacation? When returning to Korea, I don’t have time to be hanging around for my checked baggage to come through if I want to catch the train to Busan and manage to make it to work the next day. I also find it odd that a random passenger was aware that three of the Imams had only one-way tickets and no checked baggage. [/QUOTE] What you call a “random passenger” is identified in the linked story as a US Airways manager. There have been a number of incidents/scares since 9/11, including one several years ago about Young Arab Men Plotting Mayhem In A Cracker Barrel Restaurant (or was it Shoney’s?), another inflight incident where some traveling troupe of (?Central Asian?) young males decided to parade en masse up and down the aisle of the aircraft shortly before the plane made its landing approach, the action by a number of foreign exchange students from a slightly provocative origin to ignore their scheduled destination and vanish into the American interior, and so on. A common thread in these occurrences (apart from the varying degrees to which the authorities and/or common citizens may have overreacted) seems to be dopey and/or provocative behavior by the “suspicious” people involved. I am willing to entertain the idea that people can go overboard in their reactions and generate incidents unnecessarily (and a round of apologies in this case is appropriate, if for no more than public relations purposes). I also feel limited sympathy for people who help bring on their own troubles through stupidity and/or a temptation to cause a problem, and then play the victim card. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/25 "2006-11-22T04:05:52Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] I also feel limited sympathy for people who help bring on their own troubles through stupidity and/or a temptation to cause a problem, and then play the victim card. [/QUOTE] Is praying stupidity or a temptation to cause a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/26 "2006-11-22T04:08:58Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] What you call a “random passenger” is identified in the linked story as a US Airways manager. [/QUOTE] Remind me to never copy off of you during an essay exam. I was wondering how the passenger who complained couldn’ve known all that info about them–you know, the info that added up to make them suspicious. After it happened, a manager reported the rest of the stuff. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/27 "2006-11-22T04:15:16Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] I think these Imams should be a little more understanding. A bunch of Muslim guys praying before they get on the same airplane? Sorry, what does that bring to mind. [/QUOTE] People scared of flying? With good reason, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/28 "2006-11-22T04:15:56Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] For one of them to claim that this incident illustrates that they are prevented from practicing their religion in the U.S. is ridiculous. [/QUOTE] Damn right! Nobody said they can’t practice their religion - they just can’t do it and then travel on a plane. Simple! Oh, wait. But then they could complain about being prevented from exercising their right to travel within the U.S… No problem! Nobody is FORCING them to take a plane. They could take the bus! Or hitchhike. Or walk. See? We’re being reasonable! Oh, wait. But when they’re hitchhiking it might damage the pyches of some poor citizens with delicate children to see men dressed in Islamic robes walking around in public. Hey, no problem! They have the right to wear whatever they want, so they can just take off the robes and wear something else! We’re a free country, and these imams are perfectly free to go fuck themselves. They just better do it our way and not complain about how we treat them afterwards. [/SARCASM] This situation is ridiculous and reeks of paranoia. As long as these people were not conducting a human sacrificial rite or blocking traffic, I have no problem with them praying pretty much wherever they choose. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/29 "2006-11-22T04:16:32Z")
[QUOTE=matt\_mcl] People scared of flying? With good reason, apparently. [/QUOTE] There’s no such thing as an atheist in a departure lounge. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/30 "2006-11-22T05:16:49Z")
[Quote=Magellan01] I think these Imams should be a little more understanding. A bunch of Muslim guys praying before they get on the same airplane? Sorry, what does that bring to mind. While that activity might be normal in a country that sees a lot of devout Muslims praying all the time, that is not the case here. For one of them to claim that this incident illustrates that they are prevented from practicing their religion in the U.S. is ridiculous. [/Quote] Praying isn’t something muslims do just because they’re trying to show off how devout they are, it’s a requirement of the faith. Prayers must be made several times a day, preferably at specific times. This is not really an option if one is a devout muslim. And these guys were not just adherents, they were Imams or religious figures. Of course they’re going to pray before the flight, as it would have been fairly difficult to orient oneself toward Mecca while strapped into seat 24B. Personally, I think **Magellan01** , and a couple of other folks who have posted to this thread, should be a little more understanding. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/31 "2006-11-22T05:17:41Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] I can see now that it really brings _nothing_ to mind, so I don’t know what synapses fired in my mind instigating me to type what I did. [/QUOTE] Well, I’m glad we got that settled. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/32 "2006-11-22T05:42:17Z")
[QUOTE=El\_Kabong] Praying isn’t something muslims do just because they’re trying to show off how devout they are, it’s a requirement of the faith. Prayers must be made several times a day, preferably at specific times. This is not really an option if one is a devout muslim. And these guys were not just adherents, they were Imams or religious figures. Of course they’re going to pray before the flight, as it would have been fairly difficult to orient oneself toward Mecca while strapped into seat 24B. Personally, I think **Magellan01** , and a couple of other folks who have posted to this thread, should be a little more understanding. [/QUOTE] Do airports not have meditation/prayer rooms for passengers? I remember seeing a sign for a prayer/meditation room at an airport a few years ago but can’t remember where that might have been. I think it was a huge overreaction to pull these men off the plane, but if they unrolled their rugs and were praying by the departure gate, I can understand it being a little strange for people who aren’t used to seeing that. Not that it justifies any of the airline’s actions, in my opinion, but I can see why some people may have been uncomfortable with a strange situation. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/33 "2006-11-22T05:47:54Z")
Here’s some more info on the six traveling imams: [http://powerlineblog.com/archives/015982.php](http://powerlineblog.com/archives/015982.php) ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/34 "2006-11-22T05:58:16Z")
The terrorists are winning. They have won again. The only way to fight terrorism is not to be terrorized. We, on the other hand want to kill a lot of people, blame everyone, and become a nation of complete cowards, and bullies. God bless America. Tris ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/35 "2006-11-22T06:36:34Z")
[QUOTE=El\_Kabong] Personally, I think **Magellan01** , and a couple of other folks who have posted to this thread, should be a little more understanding. [/QUOTE] It doesn’t seem that I am the one not being understanding. But there’s always room for more, more, more. So let’s take a closer look at my position. What, specifically, do you disagree with: This: > [@](#): > > I think these Imams should be a little more understanding. Do you think that there is no room for them to be more understanding? To accept that people might be nervous about six Muslim guys praying before getting on an airplane? And that some people might even overreact a little? This: > [@](#): > > A bunch of Muslim guys praying before they get on the same airplane? Sorry, what does that bring to mind. Do you really thinnk that it is unreasonable for a scene like this to trigger thoughts of 9/11? Keep in mind, it actually did trigger those thoughts. So that leaves us with the “reasonable” qualifier. This: > [@](#): > > While that activity might be normal in a country that sees a lot of devout Muslims praying all the time, that is not the case here. Would you not agree that this is not an everyday occurrence for most Americans? Or this? > [@](#): > > For one of them to claim that this incident illustrates that they are prevented from practicing their religion in the U.S. is ridiculous. Are you of the opinion that this one incident indicates that Muslims cannot practice their religion in the United States? Or is this more and isolated incident. Is, perhaps, the person who made this statement overaercting himself? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/36 "2006-11-22T07:02:23Z")
Back in the '70s and '80s I recall spending quite a bit of time in LAX, picking friends up, dropping them off, stuff like that. It was a time, as I recall, of young people exploring their spirituality, and a lot of them were very enthusiastically proclaiming their Christianity. It was not an uncommon occurrence to see a group of young Jesus Freaks heading out on a church junket, or class trip, gathered in a circle in the departure gate area, holding hands, bowing their heads, and praying. And both before and after their prayer, they would talk about just about any subject under the sun, from what tourist traps they were going to see, to how glad they were that Nixon was no longer around, to whether the U. S. A. should assert total control over the Panama Canal, to how much their outlook on the world had improved since they had “found” Jesus. I grew up with a spiritual mindset that placed more weight on “do your praying in the closet” than on “wherever two or more of you are gathered in My Name,” and it made me a bit uncomfortable to witness it, but I never even considered complaining to airport or airline staff. I sucked it up and took it in stride. I just looked the other way during the praying, so as not to feel that I was intruding on an activity that I had no interest in participating in. I like to think that had I been in the Minneapolis airport, I would have been able to take similar behavior from Muslims in stride to a comparable degree. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/37 "2006-11-22T07:03:49Z")
[QUOTE=Plan B] Here’s some more info on the six traveling imams: [http://powerlineblog.com/archives/015982.php](http://powerlineblog.com/archives/015982.php) [/QUOTE] It should be noted that this cite is to an extreme right-wing, neo-con blog. There are a lot of us here in the Minnesota area who do consider it not very reliable. I’d suggest people keep that in mind when looking at it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowflake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Snowflake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowflake)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/38 "2006-11-22T08:10:43Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Going by numbers alone, any of those groups (except for the men drinking coffee) are more likely to be American Muslims than American Mormons. Are you afraid of Mormons hijacking the plane? Would you pass a note to the flight crew if you saw a few guys with black nameplates with white lettering? Would you go into a melt-down panic if you heard them say a prayer starting with “Heavenly Father” or “Eternal Father?” Anyway, where would they hijack it _to_? [/QUOTE] When they tried to board the bicycles, I would start worrying. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/39 "2006-11-22T13:18:15Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Going by numbers alone, any of those groups (except for the men drinking coffee) are more likely to be American Muslims than American Mormons. Are you afraid of Mormons hijacking the plane? Would you pass a note to the flight crew if you saw a few guys with black nameplates with white lettering? [/QUOTE] Are they cute? Can I be a hostage? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360/40 "2006-11-22T13:19:51Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Remind me to never copy off of you during an essay exam. I was wondering how the passenger who complained couldn’ve known all that info about them–you know, the info that added up to make them suspicious. After it happened, a manager reported the rest of the stuff. [/QUOTE] I’ll remind you to read your own post (#12) where you said: > [@Monty](#): > > And the “number of things that gave the flight crew pause” appear to be: > > 1. Being an Arabic man > 2. Praying in the terminal > 3. Making critical comments about the war in Iraq > \*\*4) One way tickets > 4. No checked baggage\*\* And now you claim “the rest of the stuff” (besides praying, I gather) was reported “after it happened”. I don’t know how you’ve decided all this based on the story you presented, but feel free to follow up after you’ve made your final conclusions as to how it all developed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-imams-ejected-for-praying/381360.md?page=3)