# Six Patriots won't go to White House **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 10, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468 "2017-02-10T15:22:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/41 "2017-02-17T02:40:49Z")
This isn’t supposed to be about promoting politics – it’s about celebrating a victory, and promoting the team. You win a championship, you visit the White House, no matter who’s in office. Refusing to go makes you look childish and forget the whole “there’s no i in team.” Bite the bullet and just go. (It was embarassing when Tim Thomas did it, and it’s embarassing when the Patriots do it. It’s not about you.) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/42 "2017-02-17T03:18:27Z")
Every year there are one or more players who refuse to visit the White House, no matter who is President. It is their choice. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/43 "2017-02-17T03:25:44Z")
It’s impossible for a visit to the chief politician in the nation to _not_ be political. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/44 "2017-02-17T11:33:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s impossible for a visit to the chief politician in the nation to _not_ be political. Exactly. Presidents bring sports champions to the White House because it’s good PR. No one should be forced to be part of political PR against their will. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/45 "2017-02-17T12:19:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > This isn’t supposed to be about promoting politics – it’s about celebrating a victory, and promoting the team. You win a championship, you visit the White House, no matter who’s in office. Refusing to go makes you look childish and forget the whole “there’s no i in team.” Bite the bullet and just go. And if they went – and refused to shake the man’s hand, and told him on live national television that he should resign – what then? Or should they just bite the bullet and serve as props, this isn’t the time to mention a position on stuff? (What was it that Eartha Kitt said, at the White House? About how they were sending the best of this country off to be shot and maimed – adding that Vietnam is the reason we’re having trouble with the youth of America, since it’s a war without explanation or reason? Didn’t plenty of folks criticize her for pointing that out?) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/46 "2017-02-17T15:02:48Z")
for historical reference - > [@Munch](#): > > Google’s a helpful little website. You can run searches that pull up hits from a specific period of time. Like, you could do a search on “athlete declines White House invitation”, and limit it to hits [between 1/20/2009 and 1/20/2017](https://www.google.com/search?q=athlete+declines+white+house+invitation&biw=1366&bih=638&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F20%2F2009%2Ccd_max%3A1%2F20%2F2017&tbm=). Oddly, despite Kraft’s comments, it seems that there _hasn’t_ been a media blackout on the dozens of athletes that didn’t want to shake Obama’s hand. > > In the future, regardless of politics, it’s usually a far better bet to not side with the person making an absolute claim that can be easily refuted by just a single example. > [@Munch](#): > > doorhinge, I feel like my link sufficiently answers all of the questions you’ve asked, as well as the bonus question “is doorhinge arguing in good faith?”. It’s hilariously obvious that Kraft’s statement that “this is the first time it’s gotten any media attention” is just a pathetic lie or ignorance at its finest. I honestly don’t know why you’re standing guard on this hill. If there were endless media segments of Brady not attending Obama’s invitation (other than the typical half-week news cycle this one is getting), you’d have been able to apoplectically froth about the media slobbering all over Obama because Brady’s being so mean to him. As far I know, you already did. Maybe take a moment and do so now - I’d hate to see you waste the opportunity to take both sides of a ridiculous argument. Kraft was specifically talking about New England Patriot players, and only New England Patriot players. Not a general discussion of all/many/most of the various sports participants to skipped going to the WH. According to Kraft, “_Every time we’ve had the privilege of going to the White House, a dozen of our players don’t go,‘’ Kraft said on TODAY Monday. "This is the first time it’s gotten any media attention_.” According to your “link”, Brady skipped a 2015 WH celebration. That didn’t draw much media attention at that time. Over the years, which other Patriot players have skipped WH celebrations, and how much media attention did they receive at the time they refused? LaGarrette Blount, Chris Long, Dont’a Hightower, Devin McCourty, Martellus Bennett and Alan Branch’s names have now been added to the long list of athletes who have chosen to skip a meeting with the President. A long list that some sports media guys will rehash the next time an athlete, any athlete from any sport, skips a WH celebration. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/47 "2017-02-17T16:50:15Z")
The Cubs, after winning the World Series last year, specifically moved the date of the White House visit to before January 20, so they could visit Obama rather than Trump. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/48 "2017-02-17T16:59:23Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > The Cubs, after winning the World Series last year, specifically moved the date of the White House visit to before January 20, so they could visit Obama rather than Trump. I’m fairly certain that the date is set by the White House, not by the team. And you’d certainly expect Obama to invite his home team to the WH while he’s still there. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/49 "2017-02-17T17:52:51Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > I’m fairly certain that the date is set by the White House, not by the team. And you’d certainly expect Obama to invite his home team to the WH while he’s still there. I’m fairly sure that the date is set via mutual convenience and agreement, with team and the White House both trying to be respectful and accommodating. For the record though, Obama’s hometown Chicago baseball team was the south side’s Chicago White Sox and not the Cubs. [Link](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/16/sports/baseball/president-obama-a-white-sox-fan-welcomes-the-cubs-to-the-white-house.html?_r=0/Link) A good friend of mine who is a White Sox fan states that it is more important that the Cubs lose than that the White Sox win. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/50 "2017-02-17T18:29:26Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > According to your “link”, Brady skipped a 2015 WH celebration. That didn’t draw much media attention at that time. [Yeah, where was all the attention?](https://www.google.com/search?q=tom+brady+declines+white+house&biw=1680&bih=912&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F2015%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2015&tbm=) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/51 "2017-02-26T04:30:00Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And if they went – and refused to shake the man’s hand, and told him on live national television that he should resign – what then? Or should they just bite the bullet and serve as props, this isn’t the time to mention a position on stuff? They’re not “serving as props” – if anything, it’s the other way around. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/52 "2017-02-26T04:47:57Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > They’re not “serving as props” – if anything, it’s the other way around. :rolleyes: I genuinely can’t tell what you’re trying to convey, here. Can you elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/53 "2017-02-26T05:43:35Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I genuinely can’t tell what you’re trying to convey, here. Can you elaborate? Your comment, that they’re being used as a “prop” to promote Trump is wrong. This is to promote the TEAM. The team is using a visit to the President to promote themselves – TRUMP is being used to advertise them, not the otherway around. The White House visit is a tradition – they would’ve gone if Hilary had won, so it’s not about Trump. It’s like having your picture taken with the mayor, or the victory parade. That’s all. I cringed when Tim Thomas refused to go to the White House a few years back, especially as he was the only American on the team, as well as the MVP. Don’t make it about politics, because it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/54 "2017-02-26T13:15:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Your comment, that they’re being used as a “prop” to promote Trump is wrong. This is to promote the TEAM. The team is using a visit to the President to promote themselves – TRUMP is being used to advertise them, not the otherway around. See, that’s what I don’t get. Imagine the president is the sort of guy who thinks, _I sure want to advertise my VIP status._ And so if someone says, _Do you want celebrities and champions to visit the White House to shake your hand on live national television and pose for photos with you,_ he can reply _That’d be great; they’d be like living props, given the message I want to send the world about how it’s a big deal to meet with the great man!_ Now imagine you’re the sort of person who thinks, _I sure disapprove of this president and his policies._ And imagine shaking hands with him on live national television, and posing for smiling photo ops with him, and going through the motions of acting like it’s a big honor while thinking _This is great; I’m using him as a living prop, given the message I want to send the world about how I disapprove of him and his policies!_ And, well, you _can’t_, is the thing; he can use you to send his message, if you’ll just obligingly go through the motions next to him – but you _can’t_, by obligingly going through the motions next to him, use him to send _yours_. Now, you can send your message by turning down the invitation. Or you can send your message by going to the White House and speaking your mind like Eartha Kitt did. But as far as I can tell, you _can’t_ readily send your message by plastering a grin on your face as he gladhands you and everybody acts like this is the high point of your month; that can be _his_ message, and he can use you to send it, but that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/55 "2017-02-26T13:17:15Z")
If you were a black athlete and the White House was being run by a white supremacist, you might be forgiven to think it is a little about politics. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/56 "2017-02-27T01:15:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > This is to promote the TEAM. The team is using a visit to the President to promote themselves – TRUMP is being used to advertise them, not the otherway around. I disagree. Certainly both sides get something from the visit, but it’s much more for the President than the sports team. It’s a reward for the team, it’s a publicity event for the President. ---
**Author:** ![Fleetwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fleetwood/32/271_2.png) [@Fleetwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fleetwood)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/57 "2017-03-27T14:09:46Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If you were a black athlete and the White House was being **run by a white supremacist** , you might be forgiven to think it is a little about politics. Really? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/58 "2017-03-27T14:41:32Z")
You’re denying Steve Bannon is a white supremacist? Would you deny the New England Patriots are football players? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/59 "2017-03-27T22:54:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You’re denying Steve Bannon is a white supremacist? Would you deny the New England Patriots are football players? Bannon courted white supremacists while at Breitbart to try to gain a niche following but his personal views haven’t been demonstrated to lie that way. I know Nancy Pelosi and the far left have tried to paint it that way but that doesn’t make it true. On the other hand, catering to white supremacists isn’t much better than being one yourself. At a certain point you question if a person’s beliefs or actions matter more. Is it worse to be a racist and keep your opinions to yourself or to not be a racist but provide a platform that allows their views to be heard? ---
**Author:** ![Fleetwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fleetwood/32/271_2.png) [@Fleetwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fleetwood)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468/60 "2017-03-28T11:11:45Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You’re denying Steve Bannon is a white supremacist? Would you deny the New England Patriots are football players? I don’t know whether Bannon is a white supremacist or not. You obviously have that _opinion_. I thought you wer talking about President Trump, anyway. My opinion on the Patriots is that they are the best team in the land, based on this [fapigame.AwayTeam.FullName at fapigame.HomeTeam.FullName fapigame.Season fapigame.SeasonType fapigame.Week - Game Center](http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2017020500/2016/POST22/patriots@falcons#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000784517&tab=recap) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-patriots-wont-go-to-white-house/779468.md?page=4)