# Skald. LOTR. Peter Jackson. Get in here! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988 "2012-01-09T23:54:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/21 "2012-01-10T13:13:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Ah, but he left out Tim Benzedrine! > > Tom Bombadil, for those who have not glimpsed the realm of gold. I’d think a carnivorous plant would be happy that Tim was left out. “Hie thee hence thou leafy narc!” ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/22 "2012-01-10T13:19:11Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I don’t have a problem with many of the changes Jackson made in order to get the trilogy filmed. For example, giving Glorfindel’s role to Arwen was a sensible decision, there are already too many characters to flesh them out fully. However, some of the character changes are detrimental. Aragorn is not a reluctant king in the book, [Denethor](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=634880&highlight=denethor) is not a pantomime villain and Treebeard is not an idiot (I rolled my eyes when Merry tricked the ents into attacking Isengard). But for me, the biggest problem is the style, it’s LOTR done as a modern action film. The changes in Aragorn’s and Elrond’s characters bother me the most, and, as you say, the excessive concentration on battle scenes. But I forgive Jackson because the look of Hobbiton, Rivendell, Lothlorian, Moria, Edoras, etc, seem so right to me. I love being able to see them. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/23 "2012-01-10T13:56:26Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > I’d think a carnivorous plant would be happy that Tim was left out. > > “Hie thee hence thou leafy narc!” I am, darn it! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/24 "2012-01-10T14:14:54Z")
I love the movies and am a huge fan, but I never ever think anyone is flawless and even those movies were not flawless. My biggest complaint is definitely the Frodo-Sam breakup; never happened in the book and never would have happened. I wish he had found some other way to cause drama. I was very happy he left Tom Bombadil out, what an annoying git. As for Skald, I’m pretty sure he likes the first movie OK and parts of the second, and almost none of the third. He’s not completely averse to it, it just didn’t please him. That’s OK. I can still enjoy it without making everyone in the world enjoy it, too! ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/25 "2012-01-10T14:15:20Z")
I see everyone’s completely forgotten about the time that Aragorn was thrown from his horse and almost fell down that cliff. What the fuck was \*that \*all about?! ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/26 "2012-01-10T14:17:21Z")
> [@Tapiotar](#): > > But I forgive Jackson because the look of Hobbiton, Rivendell, Lothlorian, Moria, Edoras, etc, seem so right to me. I love being able to see them. Yes, there were some great visuals. Rivendell, Edoras, Minas Tirith and the Argonath really stood out for me. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/27 "2012-01-10T15:12:27Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I see everyone’s completely forgotten about the time that Aragorn was thrown from his horse and almost fell down that cliff. What the fuck was \*that \*all about?! The fake deaths in the Two Towers struck me as odd the first time I saw the movie. We have one of the little hobbits nearly die when a horse comes down on him. Then Aragorn falls of the cliff and it looks like he’s dead for a few minutes. Isn’t there another “fake death” in that movie? I wouldn’t count Gandalf since he died in the previous movie and, well, it happens in the book. ---
**Author:** ![Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pine_Fresh_Scent)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/28 "2012-01-10T15:18:03Z")
The elf boogie boarded down the stairs, LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/29 "2012-01-10T15:20:17Z")
The first movie was terrific, and I think Jackson went right with all the big departures from the book in that one; swapping Arwen for Glorfindel was a great idea, since (1) otherwise, you’re left going “who was that guy?” who you never see again and (2) it answers the question “what the heck does Aragorn see in her” and makes the Aragorn-Eowyn dynamic work much better. Dropping Bombadil was obviously right. And the best departure isn’t really a departure; I don’t think there’s much departure from the text at all in the character of Boromir, but he just comes across so much more sympathetically than in the book. I do wish Jackson had trusted Ian Holm and Cate Blanchett to get a couple key points across by Acting instead of slathering CGI all over them, but for the most part it’s a great movie and a great adaptation. The other two movies have more weaknesses. (Denethor, Faramir, gratuitous “Aragorn falls off a cliff”, gratuitous “Arwen is sick and dying”, to name four.) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/30 "2012-01-10T15:32:37Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I see everyone’s completely forgotten about the time that Aragorn was thrown from his horse and almost fell down that cliff. What the fuck was \*that \*all about?! Didn’t bother me. ETA: What I mean to say is, I didn’t feel that changed the tone of the movie, whereas the Frodo/Sam thing certainly did (and the Denethor thing, but that bothered me less). ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/31 "2012-01-10T15:48:25Z")
I think Jackson did a better job with the movies than any other director or studio would have been likely to make. Many of the changes were necessary for the medium or made the story better; several were neutral, and a few were clunkers. One of the biggest complaints about RotK was the several ‘false’ endings; can you imagine if he had to include the Scouring of the Shire as well? Jackson could have done much, much worse – witness the travesty of the _Narnia_ movies. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/32 "2012-01-10T15:53:23Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > My biggest complaint is definitely the Frodo-Sam breakup; never happened in the book and never would have happened. I wish he had found some other way to cause drama. Not sure what you mean there. In both the book and film Frodo tries to leave the company to travel to Mordor alone, or are you referring to something else? > [@Munch](#): > > I see everyone’s completely forgotten about the time that Aragorn was thrown from his horse and almost fell down that cliff. What the fuck was \*that \*all about?! I thought it was unnecessary, but didn’t hurt the story. I’m not quite sure why that change was made, maybe the director’s commentary sheds some light. Possibly just trying to inject a bit of drama, or it might be to do with the development of Eowyn’s story arc. > [@Skammer](#): > > Jackson could have done much, much worse… Indeed, at one point John Lennon wanted to buy the film rights and have The Beatles star in it… ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/33 "2012-01-10T16:07:00Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Unless he starts tampering with his movies like George Lucas,… Heidi shot first. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/34 "2012-01-10T16:18:58Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > My biggest beef was the elves showing up at Helms Deep, and the change in personality of Farimir. > > Still, the movies are instant classics. Love, love, love 'em. Do the various extended scenes with Faramir help salvage the character? 1. TTT, when we first meet him and his men shoot that Southron, and he gives a short soliloquy on life & death, which helps soften the character a bit. 2. TTT, flashback to a scene in Osgiliath between Faramir, Boromir, and Denethor, which provides Faramir with a motivation in his dealings with Frodo. 3. ROTK, Faramir has an argument with his father about the Ring and how he wouldn’t have recognized Boromir if Boromir had taken and used the Ring. I agree that Treebeard and Denethor were treated poorly; the former was needlessly made into a stooge (simply have the hobbits show him the destruction earlier in the plot), and the latter simply wasn’t given the screentime needed to properly flesh him out (even in the extendeds). Movie-Aragorn tho I have absolutely no problem with; Book-Aragorn I think would have come across as an insufferable ass (which I why I couldn’t listen to the Master and Commander audiobooks because the voice actor for Capt. Aubrey sounded far too much like a candidate for Upper Class Twit of the Year). I prefer him with doubts, rounds him out a bit. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/35 "2012-01-10T16:32:52Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Not sure what you mean there. In both the book and film Frodo tries to leave the company to travel to Mordor alone, or are you referring to something else? I think she’s referring to the scene where Smeagol convinces Frodo that Sam ate all the lembas, (complete with planted evidence) and is just holding them back. Frodo tells Sam to leave him & Smeagol, which makes Sam’s rescue of Frodo from Shelob more dramatic. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/36 "2012-01-10T16:49:43Z")
Thanks **muldoonthief** , I’d forgotten that. I agree it was a poor change, as it turns Frodo into an idiot. In the book, he never loses sight of what motivates Smeagol. > [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Movie-Aragorn tho I have absolutely no problem with; Book-Aragorn I think would have come across as an insufferable ass (which I why I couldn’t listen to the Master and Commander audiobooks because the voice actor for Capt. Aubrey sounded far too much like a candidate for Upper Class Twit of the Year). I prefer him with doubts, rounds him out a bit. I didn’t have a big problem with the movie version of Aragorn, but I’d have preferred Jackson to have stayed closer to the source materiel. The book version also has his doubts, about which course he should take and whether he is equal to his task. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/37 "2012-01-10T17:43:57Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > I think she’s referring to the scene where Smeagol convinces Frodo that Sam ate all the lembas, (complete with planted evidence) and is just holding them back. Frodo tells Sam to leave him & Smeagol, which makes Sam’s rescue of Frodo from Shelob more dramatic. I actually think that worked rather well in the movie. I still think Sam’s arrival, sticking out the sword to attack Shelob, might be one of the greatest moments in the films. Then again, I think the best part of the book is the Shelob section. I love that part. Something about a demon from the ancient world really caught my imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/38 "2012-01-10T18:01:15Z")
Looks like we might hit page two and Skald himself hasn’t even shown up in the thread aimed at him. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/39 "2012-01-10T18:07:59Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Looks like we might hit page two and Skald himself hasn’t even shown up in the thread aimed at him. He’s probably reading the thread on his palantír and can’t get “send” to work. I hate it when that happens. ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/40 "2012-01-10T18:38:23Z")
Aragorn falling off the cliff was the bit that bugs me whenever I watch TTT again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988.md?page=3)