# Skald. LOTR. Peter Jackson. Get in here! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988 "2012-01-09T23:54:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/61 "2012-01-11T19:42:55Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > As I said earlier, he informed me real life is intervening with his posting to the Dope. In a good way. I don’t want to share his news; he can do that when/if he’s ready, but he probably won’t be posting nearly as much. 😕 …penile implant surgery? ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/62 "2012-01-11T20:18:37Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > But for me, the biggest problem is the style, it’s LOTR done as a modern action film. I quite enjoyed them when they came out, but find them unwatchable now, especially ROTK. Instead of experiencing the story, I find myself mentally cataloging all the changes. This isn’t a big deal, I can always re-read the books instead. Jackson gets some slack from me, any adaptation was always going to be a huge challenge. I’m with you here. I did watch them all when the first came out, and I thought the first movie was a really good adaptation of that material. But after that… not so much. I really, REALLY hate Gimli the Comic Relief Dwarf and The Amazing Adventures of Legolas. I’ll never forgive Jackson for that crap. I have no great hopes for the Hobbit. I just hope it doesn’t suck too bad. The Tolkien Professor makes a case for considering the movies as a separate work only loosely connected with the books. I can’t quite go that far, but I commend him for his fairness in saying something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/63 "2012-01-11T20:23:10Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > But I will never forgive Jackson for the way he butchered Denethor. Denethor was -and still is- a great man. A man that has lived in the shadow’s shadow for to long. A man that has seen all his efforts come to nothing and a man that has seen the future of his country and of his house and has despaired. Jackson gave as a clown without table manners. Oh hell yes. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/64 "2012-01-11T20:27:54Z")
> [@Archergal](#): > > I really, REALLY hate Gimli the Comic Relief Dwarf and The Amazing Adventures of Legolas. Yeah, those fellated with the utmost alacrity. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/65 "2012-01-11T20:45:25Z")
I think the LOTR trilogy is pretty well faithful to the books. I also think that the LOTR trilogy consists of three pretty bad movies. The first one’s alright, not great. They get progressively worse. In a word, it is hilariously campy, but doesn’t mean to be. It does not (and the books do) convince me it’s to be taken seriously. Schlocky and glurgy to boot. Visually stunning? Okay. But otherwise pretty dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/66 "2012-01-11T20:48:25Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I find the Extended Editions far superior to the theatricals (Thank you, Peter!),. This is an example of an objectively incorrect aesthetic opinion. 😉 The stuff “restored” to the extended editions is very poorly edited in, some of it hardly making any narrative sense. The scene in the rowboat where they’re remembering the gifts, for example–cinematographic nonsense. The mouth of Sauron–each little bit looks neat, but the way they’re put together you can hardly tell what’s happening. AH SUDDENLY THERE"S A MOUTHFACE TAKING UP THE SCREEN GRIMACING AT SOMEONE I DON"T KNOW WHO OR WHY! AND THERE IT IS AGAIN OVER AND OVER! WTF IS HAPPENING? ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/67 "2012-01-11T21:18:23Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I > In a word, it is hilariously campy, but doesn’t mean to be. It does not (and the books do) convince me it’s to be taken seriously. > Visually stunning? Okay. But otherwise pretty dumb. Like you, I ultimately don’t find the movies convincing, and that’s the bottomline problem. Although I have my own unique set of issues with the films. They’re not (to me) visually stunning; they’re high quality, special effect blockbusters, but the art direction is mundane. There’s no sense of artistic vision, like you might get from Cameron, Ridley Scott, Tim Burton, David Lynch, Tarantino, even the Pirates of the Caribbean guy…not that I’d necessarily prefer all of those to Jackson. To me there was a lack of differentiation among the elves, humans, and dwarves. Yeah, you could generally tell which was supposed to be which, but it was more superficial than the difference between a Boston Brahmin and a Louisiana Cajun. No mystery to the elves. Sidebar: My vision of Middle Earth probably requires some hyper-realism… a sense of a more real and intense world than our own. If we can go by Tolkien’s preference for Arthur Rackham style illustrations, I assume that he didn’t envision Middle Earth as an absolutely literal place himself. (My opinion here is absolutely non-expert) However, I do not picture Middle Earth in Arthur Rackham style (too twee) so I’m at odds with both Tolkien and Jackson. My own vision is closer to the Brothers Hildebrandt, but I wasn’t demanding that from the films. Just a more singular art style. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/68 "2012-01-11T21:26:45Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I know a little about JRRT & his fantasy writings… You know a _little?_ :eek: 😕 ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/69 "2012-01-11T21:37:38Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > and as for Board personalities - if we have personalities in real life, why can’t we have them on the Boards? Seeing people fawning over real-life personalities is pretty pathetic too. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/70 "2012-01-11T21:41:12Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > …Aragorn is basically a sissy in the movies, in need of a therapist. In the books, on the other hand, he is a man of firm convictions that knows the part he has to play and is prepared to play it to the bitter end. Aragorn is no anti hero as Frodo, he is the real thing. But Hollywood doesn’t care for heros, it thinks that we need flawed characters to identify to… I had no problem with Aragorn being a man who has doubts about whether he can fulfill his destiny (if he survives the war, of course). He’d be kind of an entitled idiot if he were completely confident. Any problems I have with movie-Aragorn I (dare I say it) have to blame on Viggo Mortensen. Not even sure if it’s his performance or his appearance or what: he’s beautiful, but he’s also a little too fine-boned pretty and slight for me. He’s a Ranger and has been alone in the wild for a long time. He needs to be a little less of a hippie and a little more of a state trooper, if you see what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/71 "2012-01-11T21:42:19Z")
I’m just hoping that, next year, we will not have Annoying Comic Relief Dwarf X13. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/72 "2012-01-11T22:15:01Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Seeing people fawning over real-life personalities is pretty pathetic too. Wishing I had someone on my Death List is fawning? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/73 "2012-01-12T00:38:43Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > They’re not (to me) visually stunning; they’re high quality, special effect blockbusters, but the art direction is mundane. There’s no sense of artistic vision, like you might get from Cameron, Ridley Scott, Tim Burton, David Lynch, Tarantino, even the Pirates of the Caribbean guy…not that I’d necessarily prefer all of those to Jackson. You realize that the two most famous Tolkien artists of all time (Alan Lee and John Howe, tho you did mention Arthur Rackham) had their styles integrated into the movie all over the place, right? > [@](#): > > Sidebar: My vision of Middle Earth probably requires some hyper-realism… a sense of a more real and intense world than our own. I can grok that (I am a sucker for the highest of high fantasy); Jackson made the deliberate choice to have ME look as “realistic” as possible (yes everybody’s MMV on that point). ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/74 "2012-01-12T00:40:37Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > I’m just hoping that, next year, we will not have Annoying Comic Relief Dwarf X13. Bombur is probably the default odds-on favorite there-do you wish the comic relief didn’t exist at all, and if you don’t how would you have done it? I LOL every time at Gimli keeling over during the drinking game, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/75 "2012-01-12T01:23:17Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > You realize that the two most famous Tolkien artists of all time (Alan Lee and John Howe, tho you did mention Arthur Rackham) had their styles integrated into the movie all over the place, right? Shoot, even the entrance to Moria is identical to that depicted in the book. The scripts, languages, etc. we’re all incorporated into the film, right down to Howard Shore incorporating choral chanting and singing in elvish and the Black Speech. Personally, I thought Weta did an incredible job on the art direction and production. And yes, Jackson mentioned he didn’t want it to look hyper-stylized or filled with too much wizardy effects. He felt it should evoke a sense of culture and history for every race and city. There’s far more freedom for art direction for a movie set in the future, and with no real pre-existing concepts as seen in Blade Runner or Alien. Syd Mead and H. R. Giger were inspired choices by Ridley Scott to bring on on the conception of those films (respectively). I’d say the same for Alan Lee and John Howe. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/76 "2012-01-12T01:23:31Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > You realize that the two most famous Tolkien artists of all time (Alan Lee and John Howe, tho you did mention Arthur Rackham) had their styles integrated into the movie all over the place, right? Whoa. Jackson used Arthur Rackham illustrations? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/77 "2012-01-12T03:14:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I thought most people were upset about the lack of the scouring. Is that not a big deal? I find it kinda interesting that even the Shire was not immune, and seeing Saruman’s actual defeat by a strengthened Frodo is really nice. The Scouring was Tolkien basically screaming “technology bad, idyllic pastoral nature good !” at the top of his lungs. Which would have been ironic to include in a film where 90% of what you see is generated by hyper advanced computers. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/78 "2012-01-12T03:25:15Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Whoa. > Jackson used Arthur Rackham illustrations? I don’t know, just was acknowledging that the poster I quoted mentioned him. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/79 "2012-01-12T04:10:17Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I don’t know, just was acknowledging that the poster I quoted mentioned him. Dammit. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/80 "2012-01-12T13:02:39Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > There’s no sense of artistic vision Question: have you _seen_ the “Making Of…” dvd extras? I doubt it, from this: > [@](#): > > To me there was a lack of differentiation among the elves, humans, and dwarves as that was something they went to great lengths to do (completely different art styles, all with an evolution of style over time, esp. for the humans) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988.md?page=5)