# Skald. LOTR. Peter Jackson. Get in here! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988 "2012-01-09T23:54:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/101 "2012-01-13T21:10:20Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Ahh, I wasn’t aware of that. I haven’t read much about the author himself. But some of his forewords seemed to indicate he wrote these for his own pleasure and to entertain as a storyteller. That’s largely correct, he spent much of his life writing stories he did not expect to be published. The Hobbit started as a story to his own children, and the manuscript was occasionaly loaned out to people outside the family. Tolkien was only encouraged to finish it after it was read by a former student who had a friend at a publisher. LotR was started as a sequel to the Hobbit. Tolkien was struggling financially and was aware of the potential to build on it’s success, but the new story took on a life of it’s own. It took 12 years to write, and was not published for another 6 after that. The whole process was extremely torturous. He was never able to finish The Silmarillion in his lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/102 "2012-01-13T23:58:49Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Elves are filled with helium… so they’re lighter. Not helium, unicorn farts! ---
**Author:** ![vifslan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f4b2a3/32.png) [@vifslan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vifslan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/103 "2012-01-14T05:08:15Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > Never fear, eventually there will be a musical LOTR. What do you mean, there will be? > **[The Lord of the Rings (musical)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Rings_%28musical%29)** > > The Lord of the Rings is a stage musical with music by A. R. Rahman, Värttinä, and Christopher Nightingale, and lyrics and book by Shaun McKenna and Matthew Warchus, based on the novel of the same name by J. R. R. Tolkien. It is the most prominent of several theatre adaptations of the novel. Set in the world of Middle-earth, the musical tells the tale of a humble hobbit who is asked to play the hero and undertake a treacherous mission to destroy an evil, magic ring without being seduced by its... The Svenska Teatern in Helsinki also produced an adaptation of LOTR in 2001, but we never went there, precious, never saw it. I remember hearing some of the music on the radio and thinking it wasn’t as bad as it could have been. English reviews of the plays are thin on the ground, but this one has some of the PR shots. (No, I don’t approve of the mask that the Gollum actor is wearing.) [http://www.enhorningen.net/Recensioner/Sagan\_om\_ringen\_teater.shtml](http://www.enhorningen.net/Recensioner/Sagan_om_ringen_teater.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/104 "2012-01-14T21:04:29Z")
> [@vifslan](#): > > What do you mean, there will be? While posting the one-liner about a LOTR musical I assumed it was subject to extensive footnotes. Still, Mr **vifslan** , to help you envision Sam watching a lonely star, here’s Fievel singing\*[Somewhere Out There](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dan6g5a3Dgg&feature=related)\* from **An American Tail**. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/105 "2012-01-14T21:44:53Z")
The ‘Sam watching a lonely star’ might have been done by having us hear Sam’s thoughts. Sometimes that works. Sometimes it doesn’t. Comments? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/106 "2012-01-14T22:24:23Z")
**Topic reversal** I actually have this nagging, but ever-present irritation about Tolkien’s [Map of Middle-Earth.](http://blog.lefigaro.fr/hightech/assets_c/2011/06/middle-earth-map-33096.html) The convenient rectangular mountain-range surrounding Mordor, just looks unnatural and way too convenient and contrived as opposed to the elegance of the rest of the geography. This nag anyone else? **/Topic reversal** ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/107 "2012-01-14T22:30:34Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > **Topic reversal** > > I actually have this nagging, but ever-present irritation about Tolkien’s [Map of Middle-Earth.](http://blog.lefigaro.fr/hightech/assets_c/2011/06/middle-earth-map-33096.html) The convenient rectangular mountain-range surrounding Mordor, just looks unnatural and way too convenient and contrived as opposed to the elegance of the rest of the geography. > > This nag anyone else? > > **/Topic reversal** Oh HECK YEAH! We used to make fun of that back in the day (1970s). So freaking contrived that we just fan-wanked it (incidentally, a term that did not exist then) into being Sauron’s magic that created the mountains. So, of course, for several years, many of our D&D landscapes included that silly configuration. I guess if you project a giant fortress where the walls are actually mountains, then the scale has to change. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/108 "2012-01-14T22:34:18Z")
Actually, it could have been Melkor (Morgoth.) He went around and randomly raised mountains (or took down mountains) to annoy other people. Edit: well, not other people. Other valar. Sauron in those days was merely one of Melkor’s minions. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/109 "2012-01-14T22:40:25Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Actually, it could have been Melkor (Morgoth.) He went around and randomly raised mountains (or took down mountains) to annoy other people. > > Edit: well, not other people. Other valar. > > Sauron in those days was merely one of Melkor’s minions. It was Morgoth that caused the upheaval that led to Mordor. I can’t remember where I read that but maybe \*\*QtM \*\*will be by to point out the reference. Mordor existed before Sauron moved in though. That I am sure of. Shelob n fact is referenced as being there first. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/110 "2012-01-14T22:48:54Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > It was Morgoth that caused the upheaval that led to Mordor. I can’t remember where I read that but maybe \*\*QtM \*\*will be by to point out the reference. Mordor existed before Sauron moved in though. That I am sure of. Shelob n fact is referenced as being there first. Certainly it was not through naturally occurring plate tectonics (if such are even relevant to Middle Earth in the first place). I think you may be right, but I couldn’t put my finger on the reference quickly, and I’m too lazy to put any real time into it. But I will say that Mordor was nothing compared to Thangorodrim and the Iron Mountains, which Morgoth certainly did raise himself as described in _The Silmarillion_, and Sauron’s Dark Tower was a pitiful hovel compared to Angband. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/111 "2012-01-14T22:50:20Z")
Ah, yes. I read and reread LotR probably 10 times between 1970 and 1980. The Silmarillion only twice. So, Morgoth probably raised the ‘mountain fortress’? And, of course, Mount Doom. Gosh, it has been a long time since I read the Silmarillion. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/112 "2012-01-14T22:51:46Z")
Yeah, naturally occurring plate tectonics. heh heh heh Really? You think not? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/113 "2012-01-14T22:58:20Z")
For what it is worth, I thought Tolkien was at least inspired a bit by Eastern Turkey/Iraq: [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Anatolian_Plate.png) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Anatolian_Plate.png) There are so many mountain ranges merging at this point and several huge lakes. Though Nurn is not fresh water. But still if 3 plates merge oddly ranges can do surprising things. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/114 "2012-01-14T23:11:55Z")
One theory regarding the formation of Mordor is that it’s the site of the great lamp Iluin, destroyed by Melkor in the early days of Arda. This caused the formation of the inland sea Helcar, which drained in the destruction at the end of the First Age. It seems to be a bit speculative that the location is correct, but if so the destruction of Iluin could well have created some sort of crater, and the draining of the sea could have flattened one side. This theory isn’t without flaws, but is the most specific one I’ve come across. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/115 "2012-01-15T08:40:00Z")
It had crossed my mind that the mountain ranges were risen using some dark magic to fortify Mordor’s boundaries. But, I’m by no means well versed in the depths of Tolkien’s mythology. Just a general fan, with a passing interest. So, if someone does have some definitive cannon on that formation, it might help me look at the map in a more balanced way, without my eyes scraping over that damn sore spot. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988/116 "2012-01-15T12:42:02Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I actually have this nagging, but ever-present irritation about Tolkien’s [Map of Middle-Earth.](http://blog.lefigaro.fr/hightech/assets_c/2011/06/middle-earth-map-33096.html) The convenient rectangular mountain-range surrounding Mordor, just looks unnatural and way too convenient and contrived as opposed to the elegance of the rest of the geography. I believe Tolkien did acknowledge that his geography was not realistic, but I can’t find a cite now. As others have pointed out, there are several instances in it’s mythology where it suffered upheavals, such as the toppling of the lamps and the sinking of Beleriand. The wiki article says: > [@](#): > > Mordor was a relic of the devastating works of Morgoth, apparently formed by massive volcanic eruptions. It was given the name Mordor already before Sauron settled there, because of its volcano and its eruptions. So it’s seems it’s formation was not natural. It doesn’t give a source for that however. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skald-lotr-peter-jackson-get-in-here/608988.md?page=5)