# Skating on ice - how do you know when it's safe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 25, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738 "2005-11-25T22:35:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/1 "2005-11-25T22:35:08Z")
Just read about the Wisconsin man who drowned trying to save his daughter (she drowned too). They were skating on a large pond when she fell through and the news report said the ice was less than 3 inches thick. I’ve never lived anywhere that stuff froze over and, frankly, the idea of walking on a pond scares the crap out of me. So a question for you yankees - how do you know when it’s safe to go out on the ice? Do you just wait 'til it reaches a certain temperature? For a certain number of days? Does somebody monitor the pond (or river or lake) water temperature? Or take ice cores so you know how thick the ice is? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/2 "2005-11-25T22:46:40Z")
That was a truly tragic story. I was once stationed not far from that incident, and underwent ice rescue training while there. The official answer is: There is no “truly safe ice”. That being said, however, there are some general guidelines for ice activities with regards to thickness. The ice thickness numbers we use in the CG can be found here: [http://www.uscg.mil/MLCLANT/KDIV/kseIceSafety.htm](http://www.uscg.mil/MLCLANT/KDIV/kseIceSafety.htm) Those numbers are assuming ‘clear ice’, which is the strongest. The ice that the father and daughter were skating on may have been 3", but it probably wasn’t strong, clear ice. My first thought upon seeing the news was that it’s awfully early in the year to be out on the ice. I don’t know how long the Great Lakes has had freezing temps, but generally you want to be well into winter before recreating on the ice. November is generally way too early in those parts. Very sad news. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/3 "2005-11-25T22:49:24Z")
When I was a little girl growing up in the Chicago suburbs, every December or thereabouts one of the Daddies on the block would go over to the local pond-cum-“swamp” that served as a skating venue, and test the ice. Then if Donna’s daddy, or Carolyn’s daddy, or Susan’s daddy said it was okay, then it was okay. But they never let on what their testing trade secret was, other than a general reluctance to let their children skate on ice that was so thin that when you bounced on it, it swayed and groaned. If it still “gave” when you jumped on it, then we kids knew there was no point in asking Daddy to go test it. And yes, there were Big Boys who would go out there and jump on it when it wasn’t really frozen yet. For some reason the Darwin Awards never caught up to them. 😃 Anyway, the Red Cross suggests at least 6 inches of ice. My recollection is that it was probably at least 4 inches thick when “Somebody’s Daddy” said it was okay. [http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/ab/banff/activ/activ26\_E.asp](http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/ab/banff/activ/activ26_E.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/4 "2005-11-25T23:17:25Z")
The tragedy the OP cited happened very very close to where I live. We didn’t know the people who died, but we know some of their family and many of their friends. I’m still shaking my head about what the dad could have been thinking. He’s from around here, and it just has not been cold enough long enough for anyone to be going out on an icy pond!! Sorry, nothing else useful to contribute. This one just hits too close to home. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/5 "2005-11-25T23:32:08Z")
One thing you sould do on ice, that is not clear and posted for skating, take ice picks with you attached by your hand. It allows you to pull yourself from the water. The skating ponds have signs that tell you if skating is permitted. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/6 "2005-11-25T23:37:10Z")
If I remember correctly from Boy Scouts about 50 years ago, the saying was as follows: 1 inch stay off, 2 inces one may, 3 inches, small groups, 4 inches, OK. As always YMMV 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/7 "2005-11-25T23:52:18Z")
Truth is, you don’t always know when it’s safe and when it’s not. Once I was skiing in Michigan, on a lake that the local authorities had deemed “safe”. People used snowmobiles on the lake, so just me and my friend on skies should have been just fine, right? Spreads our weight out even more than skates would. Well, we stopped for a minute or two. I heard this cracking and groaning noise. I looked down. There were spiderwebs of cracks under both of our skies, with water oozing up through the cracks. Ever try to tip-toe and run at the same time? Turns out, that part of the lake _wasn’t_ safe (obviously), had been marked off with sawhorses and warning tape, but some local “pranksters” had made off with the warnings. Other parts of that lake WERE safe. But it goes to show that even if the ice has been checked you still have to be alert and cautious. That said, despite the very cold temperatures we’ve had recently (like today) it is MUCH too early in the season around these parts to venture out onto “wild ice” (formal skate rinks with refrigeration equipment being an entirely different matter). There just hasn’t been time for a good, thick, layer of strong ice to form. And like **QtM** said, someone from this area _should_ know that. Lake Michigan ice, by the way, should _never_ be considered safe. Seems we lose a few people every year to the Big Lake when they wander out onto the ice shelf. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/8 "2005-11-26T00:23:41Z")
My message was messed up by a get off the phone demand. You can’t trust the ice when you can’t see through it. The ice can go from feet thick to only a thin skin by a spring or strong current. The peaty bogs and grass tuffs keep the ice from forming a thick ice sometimes. I wanted to say that nothing compares to going out on a lake on a sub zero night. The lake ice is highly stressed from expansion, and every move on the ice sends a expansion crack thundering across the lake. The loud noise then rebounds from the hills and echos in the silence of the night. You hear the sound start at your feet and seconds later ends across the lake like a giant zipper being pulled by God. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/9 "2005-11-26T01:07:18Z")
a previous thread on the subject [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=158448&highlight=safe](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=158448&highlight=safe) ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/10 "2005-11-26T03:09:25Z")
The weather hasn’t stayed below freezing more than a couple days and maybe a week before this cold snap. The trees only had a killer frost 2 weeks ago. They went from green to brown and are still on the trees. Nobody should go on any ice in this state yet. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/11 "2005-11-26T03:25:19Z")
So how does one go about measuring the thickness of ice? Drill a small hole using a long drill bit and cordless drill? ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/12 "2005-11-26T12:59:06Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > So how does one go about measuring the thickness of ice? Drill a small hole using a long drill bit and cordless drill? I believe many folks do just that. You can also buy ice augers ranging in size from the [small, hand powered ones](http://www.gov.mb.ca/conservation/sustain/images/auger2.gif) to the [large, gasoline powered ones](http://www.ndfb.org/images/YFR_Ice%20Auger05.jpg) for cutting ice fishing holes. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/13 "2005-11-26T14:01:18Z")
You know what’s a good rule of thumb to follow? If someone suggests skating on a supposedly frozen body of water, don’t fucking go. Suggest, instead, that they take a electric drill and use it on their heads. Or use a plastic bag for a hood. What’s the attraction about a frozen pond and ice skates? It’s fun? So is rollerskating on the lip of the Grand Canyon, but why choose that particular spot? If you like to skate, find someplace that isn’t deep enough to drown if the ice breaks. Is this so hard? Is ice skating such a fabulous activity? I don’t get this at all. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/14 "2005-11-26T14:06:14Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > What’s the attraction about a frozen pond and ice skates? It’s fun? So is rollerskating on the lip of the Grand Canyon, but why choose that particular spot? If you like to skate, find someplace that isn’t deep enough to drown if the ice breaks. Is this so hard? Is ice skating such a fabulous activity? I’ve never lived anywhere that’s cold enough for skating on ponds. But I suspect that it’s popular because it’s there. People have been ice skating for centuries. Refrigerated rinks are relatively new. People bungee jump and skydive. Why not just jump off the curb or dive into a swimming pool? It would be safer. People skate on ice because they like to skate. They may not have a commercial rink nearby. It’s something they grew up with. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/15 "2005-11-26T14:23:18Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > You know what’s a good rule of thumb to follow? If someone suggests skating on a supposedly frozen body of water, don’t fucking go. > > Suggest, instead, that they take a electric drill and use it on their heads. Or use a plastic bag for a hood. > > What’s the attraction about a frozen pond and ice skates? It’s fun? So is rollerskating on the lip of the Grand Canyon, but why choose that particular spot? If you like to skate, find someplace that isn’t deep enough to drown if the ice breaks. Is this so hard? Is ice skating such a fabulous activity? > > I don’t get this at all. What drivel. :rolleyes: People in Europe and America have been skating on ponds without trouble for centuries. Stupid people are the ones that get in trouble, like a dad taking two kids out within a couple days of the first sub-freezing temperatures of the season. That same pond, in mid-January, is going to be so safe you could Zamboni on it. Or don’t you read things like _Hans Brinker_? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/16 "2005-11-26T14:54:02Z")
If you think _skating_ on a frozen pond is nuts, [check this out.](http://www.thedieselgypsy.com/Ice%20Roads-3B-Denison.htm) Most of the time, they’re [safe as kittens.](http://www.thedieselgypsy.com/slide0641_image646-Sm.jpg)\* Other times… [not so much.](http://www.thedieselgypsy.com/ICE-Truck-1.jpg) \*[sub]not to be taken literally[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/17 "2005-11-26T15:42:09Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > People in Europe and America have been skating on ponds without trouble for centuries. Except when there’s trouble. This is what I don’t get. When something goes wrong with most leisure activities, you get inconvenienced. If you’re jogging, say, and you step on a large rock, you could turn your ankle. Sprain it, even. Maybe even, once in blue moon, break your ankle. But when you go skating on a pond, and the ice breaks, you could easily drown. So no, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/18 "2005-11-26T15:50:50Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > Except when there’s trouble. This is what I don’t get. When something goes wrong with most leisure activities, you get inconvenienced. If you’re jogging, say, and you step on a large rock, you could turn your ankle. Sprain it, even. Maybe even, once in blue moon, break your ankle. But when you go skating on a pond, and the ice breaks, you could easily drown. So no, thanks. I’ve never done it, and frankly I feel about the same way. But if your safe about it, you should be okay. I have some friends in Mequon WI that go out skating in winter on their pond. But first they go out and drill some holes to check the depth of the ice. I don’t know how many or how deep, but so far all’s been well. If it were me, I suppose I’d scatter lots of holes all over the ice and make sure the ice is REALLY thick before I’d attempt it. I’d prbably make sure to have a spotter on ‘dry’ land with a cell phone and some ropes too. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/19 "2005-11-26T15:51:21Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > This is what I don’t get. When something goes wrong with most leisure activities, you get inconvenienced. If you’re skydiving there may be a problem with your 'chute and you die. Many people die while riding motorcycles. Aircraft have been known to crash. (Last I checked something under 20% involved fatalities.) Sonny Bono and someone else (a Kennedy?) were killed snow skiing, and several people have been killed in avalanches. Swimmers drown every year. Kirsty McColl was run over by a boat. Hikers have fallen into ravines. Joggers have been hit by cars. People can be killed in _many_ recreational activities. Perhaps skating on a frozen pond isn’t for you; but it’s an activity that millions of people have enjoyed. You take your pick and accept the risks. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738/20 "2005-11-26T15:54:59Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > Except when there’s trouble. This is what I don’t get. When something goes wrong with most leisure activities, you get inconvenienced. If you’re jogging, say, and you step on a large rock, you could turn your ankle. Sprain it, even. Maybe even, once in blue moon, break your ankle. But when you go skating on a pond, and the ice breaks, you could easily drown. So no, thanks. Except of course when you are jogging by the side of the road and get hit by a car. There are precautions and risks in any activity. I grew up on a lake. Generally the lake was frozen by Thanksgiving, but not frozen enough to walk on unless you were going to walk on the beach, where if you fell through you’d get your ankles wet (and cold!) This year it wasn’t even close - wide open water with choppy ice on the edges. My dad used an auger before we’d go out farther than “getting wet to the knees.” Ponds tend to freeze faster - they are sheltered and smaller. But you don’t go out on a pond until the big water freezes - if the lake is wide open, the pond may be frozen, but it isn’t safe. Skating on a lake - I lived in that house 20 years (my parents still live there) and there were only a few years the lake froze calm enough to skate on. Generally, either the ice mixed with falling snow and didn’t make good skating ice or the wind was blowing and it was too choppy, or the snow fell too hard and it was easier to walk up to the rink than to shovel. For the same reason ponds freeze faster, they usually freeze better for skating. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skating-on-ice-how-do-you-know-when-its-safe/332738.md?page=2)