# Skeptics about the lunar landing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 23, 2006, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964 "2006-08-23T23:24:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/41 "2006-08-25T12:35:01Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] Disregard my previous post. The other missions orbited the moon as well. [/QUOTE] But there you demonstrate part of the problem: a large enough part of the general public, even including what would be considered well-informed people compared to the average masses, will ahve gaps in their initial recollection of events or understanding of information, that allow a foot-in-the-door to the “questioners” while the person gets his ducks in order – And be it evolution, the Holocaust, or the Moon landing, all it takes is for the person arguing the reality to take pause to wonder “wait a minute, am I remembering that right”, for the other side to go:\* “AHA! So you do NOT know for certain!”\* . As to the ease of the skepticism about the feasibility of this, blame also Dick Nixon or the Congress of the early 1970s or whoever it was that decided that once we had proved we were hung bigger than the Commies, there was no need to follow up further on “conquering space”. A lot of people out there honestly believe that if the USA were really such a technological superpower, by now we should have the flying cars and robot maids and Mars bases; that hasn’t happened so obviously the whole Space Race was a smokescreen :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/42 "2006-08-25T12:54:17Z")
[QUOTE=JRDelirious] . . . A lot of people out there honestly believe that if the USA were really such a technological superpower, by now we should have the flying cars and robot maids and Mars bases; that hasn’t happened so obviously the whole Space Race was a smokescreen :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] We’ve got iPods. Proof enough! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/43 "2006-08-25T12:55:50Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] True. IIRC, the Apollo 13 crew were the first humans to ever go to the side of the moon facing away from Earth, and even they didn’t land there. [/QUOTE] I don’t think that is true, There was one crewman on the return modual orbiting, while the others went down and up in the LEM. Also IIRC earlier Apollo missions just swung around the moon to test systems and would have passed over the dark side. Apollo 13 I think had a different orbit then all others, IIRC the others used a ‘safe return’ orbit, meaning they would swing around the moon and if they did nothing they would automatically return to a earth orbit. A 13 had a orbit that would not afford this. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/44 "2006-08-25T13:01:47Z")
[QUOTE=guppy] The landings would have been faked with 1960’s technology too. All the scifi movies I’ve seen from that time period makes me think producing a convincing fake would be more difficult given the special effects of the time. 😉 [/QUOTE] A few people have done some accounting on the subject – their conclusion was that faking the landings would have been seriously expensive and difficult. A cheaper and easier solution would have been – get this – actually going to the Moon. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/45 "2006-08-25T13:03:12Z")
[QUOTE=JRDelirious] A lot of people out there honestly believe that if the USA were really such a technological superpower, by now we should have the flying cars and robot maids and Mars bases; that hasn’t happened so obviously the whole Space Race was a smokescreen :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] That’s bullshit, man. I want my robot maid! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/46 "2006-08-25T14:00:02Z")
**control-z** , I think enough people here have enough information on the topic to set you straight, but you might want to read up on **BA** ’s website, [here](http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html). You can also click on “Bulletin Board” (which you’ll have to sign up to use), then go to the Conspiracy Theories forum, and post your concerns. If, after having gone 6 rounds with **Jay Utah** , you’re still not convinced, then you’re as dumb as a bag of spatulas. You’re not dumb as a bag of spatulas, are you? Of course not! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/47 "2006-08-25T14:22:17Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] That’s bullshit, man. I want my robot maid! [/QUOTE] and _I_ want my jetpack dammit! ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/48 "2006-08-25T14:33:19Z")
I recently heard a Ricky Gervais piece about what a crap place the moon must be, Michael Collins flew all the way there and couldn’t be bothered getting out of the Lunar Module even if just to stretch his legs. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/49 "2006-08-25T14:52:24Z")
[QUOTE=BMalion] and _I_ want my jetpack dammit! [/QUOTE] :dubious: Well, we all have our priorities. A robot maid could well double as a sex slave. A jetpack? You bump your head! ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/50 "2006-08-25T16:43:19Z")
I watched Apollo 11 in the control room of a local TV station – I was an intern on the news staff there, and the first moonwalk pre-empted our local news. We watched in utter awe, but I remember thinking, “Jeez, the video is really crappy.” If they were faking it, it wouldn’t have taken much to just say, “Oh, and we have this great new video technology,” and provided much better video of the whole thing. As far as the technology is concerned, I think I remember a NASA guy explaining to Walter Conkrite that it was really just a matter of two things – brute force to launch 'em out of Earth’s gravity, and mathematics to plot the correct course. After the heavy lifting, everything else was just math. I don’t mean to denigrate mathematicians – God knows I couldn’t solve a TV murder with cosines – but seriously, they just applied the math that had already been done and combined it with a kick-ass rocket motor. Oh, yeah, one other thing – if the whole thing was a hoax, why bother to hoax up Apollo 13? Or the launchpad fire? Why hoax failures? To make it more believable? If so, why kill three astronauts in a fake launchpad fire but let three more survive a near-disaster in space? Sorry, but you just cannot make that shit up. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/51 "2006-08-25T16:47:26Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] Oh, yeah, one other thing – if the whole thing was a hoax, why bother to hoax up Apollo 13? Or the launchpad fire? Why hoax failures? To make it more believable? If so, why kill three astronauts in a fake launchpad fire but let three more survive a near-disaster in space? Sorry, but you just cannot make that shit up. [/QUOTE] Easy. Apollo 13 was to create credibility, so those in on the conspiracy could ask “why bother to hoax up Apollo 13?” And Apollo 1 caught on fire because Gus Grissom was going to “blow the whistle” on the whole scam. Geez, man, bone up on your whack-job conspiracies, will ya? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/52 "2006-08-25T17:03:51Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] I watched Apollo 11 in the control room of a local TV station – I was an intern on the news staff there, and the first moonwalk pre-empted our local news. We watched in utter awe, but I remember thinking, “Jeez, the video is really crappy.” If they were faking it, it wouldn’t have taken much to just say, “Oh, and we have this great new video technology,” and provided much better video of the whole thing. [/QUOTE] They actually did have much better video technology, but the format was incompatible with broadcast television. The footage that was broadcast was captured by setting up a television camera at one of the ground stations and pointing it at the monitor displaying the actual feed. So it’s no wonder it looked crappy. Unfortunately, [NASA now can’t find the high-resolution tapes](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5578853) … . ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/53 "2006-08-25T17:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=minlokwat] A quick question. Were the people back here on Earth at that time, able to use their telescopes to observe the goings-on up on the moon while the landings were taking place? I presume that the answer is “no” that the landings took place on the –literal- dark side of the moon, leading some to wonder why. [/QUOTE] According to Jim Lovell in _Lost Moon_ (pp. 113f) there was a group that monitored the moon flights with a telescope. The vehicle itself was too small to be seen, but the cloud produced by urine dumps (Wally Schirra’s “Constellation Urion”) could be seen. And they had absolutely no problem seeing the cloud produced by Apollo XIII’s exploding oxygen tank. (They _were_ able to see the third stage of the Saturn booster.) ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/54 "2006-08-25T17:20:46Z")
[QUOTE=Smeghead] I like how people today who weren’t alive in the 60s figure they know more about what they could accomplish back then than all of those people who were there when it actually happened. [/QUOTE] Well, you have to admit it must have been hard to chase away all the dinosaurs so they could launch their rockets. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/55 "2006-08-25T18:01:33Z")
Not only was the rest math, but all of the math — on rocket thrust, escape velocity, and orbital velocity — was known by the 1940s, and research papers were published on this topic. Self-contained pressurized suits had also been developed for diving in the 1940s. The U.S. Army Signal Corps first [bounced radar waves](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_bounce) off the moon in 1946, and by 1954 voice transmissions were relayed off the moon. Lunar relays of radio transmissions became routine by 1960. The U.S. space program proceeded in stages: in 1961 they were able to rocket a man straight up and down; in 1963 they were able to put a man in orbit around the earth; in 1968, they were able to get a spacecraft to leave the earth, orbit the moon and return; in 1969 they were able to land on the moon. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/56 "2006-08-25T18:09:51Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] The footage that was broadcast was captured by setting up a television camera at one of the ground stations and pointing it at the monitor displaying the actual feed. So it’s no wonder it looked crappy. [/QUOTE] It also looked crappy because the image was in monochrome and photographed at only ten frames per second (films are photographed at 24 fps and American television at 30 fps), and then relayed from a receiving station in Australia by satellite to Mission Control in Houston, adding a layer of ghosting effects that television satellite transmisions of that era were plagued by. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/57 "2006-08-25T18:25:24Z")
[QUOTE=don’t ask] I recently heard a Ricky Gervais piece about what a crap place the moon must be, Michael Collins flew all the way there and couldn’t be bothered getting out of the Lunar Module even if just to stretch his legs. [/QUOTE] Ricky might be interested to know that Michael Collins wasn’t on the moon in the Lunar Module, he was orbiting the moon in the Command Module. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/58 "2006-08-25T21:57:39Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] Not only was the rest math, but all of the math — on rocket thrust, escape velocity, and orbital velocity — was known by the 1940s, and research papers were published on this topic. [/QUOTE] I can look it up if necessary, but I remember reading that “going to the moon” was considered a bit “boring” as far as orbital mechanics goes, so students/scientists were often given problems involving the other planets. When it came to actually going to the moon, there was actually a relative dearth of published data compared to Mars, say. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/59 "2006-08-25T23:40:22Z")
My OP was not so much about if they would or could fake the landing, but whether anyone else has come across educated people who so strongly believe that it was indeed faked–especially people (like Italians) who have no particular reason to suspect fakery. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964/60 "2006-08-26T01:06:48Z")
[QUOTE=guizot] My OP was not so much about if they would or could fake the landing, but whether anyone else has come across educated people who so strongly believe that it was indeed faked–especially people (like Italians) who have no particular reason to suspect fakery. [/QUOTE] That might have a lot to do with national pride; doubting the Americans did it because their country never did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skeptics-about-the-lunar-landing/369964.md?page=4)