# Skilled Trades are a viable path to the middle class **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 22, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229 "2021-01-22T18:43:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/21 "2021-01-22T20:37:33Z")
we are a fast growing area so the need for electricians, plumbers , etc is always high. Recently the growth was 63 new people per day , it could be lower now. Every new house is bought quickly and new apartments are always filled fast ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/22 "2021-01-22T20:49:10Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Or you could go to college and get a degree and still be asking “do you want fries with that?” for $14 per hour while you pay off $100k in student loans. The only people who will be in that position are the people who deliberately squandered their college education by eschewing opportunities to network, perform internships, tutor peers, volunteer for leadership positions, and perform similar activities and gain valuable experience. Someone who partied for 4 years and graduated with a BA in Interdisciplinary Studies with a 2.17 GPA and has absolutely nothing else to add to their CV is likely worse off than a high school dropout with a GED: the GED earner can get a job at McDonald’s, the BA earner is over qualified for fast food but is qualified to do literally nothing else. I have a BA and an MA in history. I used my time in college to tutor literature and English comp, which helped my land a job as a GED class instructor after I graduated with my BA. I now teach reading and literacy in a boarding school for disadvantaged youth. My MA got me the job, despite the job having nothing to do with history. But I make a living wage, have strong union protections, and a generous benefit package. With my education and my experience I could likely obtain a full-time teaching position at a CC or university and make more money and have better bennies than I do now. The school I work at teaches trades. I’m all for trades with one huge caveat: a vast majority of them are, essentially, short-term temporary employment. What I mean by that is for many tradespeople their jobs are quite short-lived and unless they have the next job lined up, they’re screwed. Electricians, plumbers, construction workers, painters, masons, and numerous others fall into this category. For them to make a living wage (and have stability which, personally, I believe to be one of the criteria for a middle-class lifestyle) they need to have someone on their team that can line up steady work weeks, months, and sometimes years ahead. Some trades are somewhat immune to that. Auto mechanics is, while not recession-proof, more stable than others. Welders have a skillet that allows them much flexibilty: one of my students used her welding skills to create small coffee-table type pieces of artwork and jewelry. She’s not exactly living a middle-class lifestyle but she’s makes enough to pay the bills (or did before Covid, anyway). Welders can also branch out and do things like auto body repair that uses a lot of the skills they learned as an apprentice. Also there will always be ebbs and flows in demand for skilled trades. During the great recession a lot of rough carpenters and other similar construction workers were out of work for months or even years. However now during the pandemic a lot of construction boomed and builders and their subcontractors were and are quite busy. Someone mentioned truck driving. The best truck driving jobs are not only local but do not rely on a booming consumer economy: jobs like driving a municipal garbage truck or a dump truck for the local county road department are much more stable than long-haul. So to answer the OP’s question, of course skilled trades are a viable path to a middle-class life. But one must play their cards right and choose their trade wisely, just like a college student must. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/23 "2021-01-22T20:51:11Z")
ETA: @Lancia just above wasn’t there when I started. He’s said many of the things I did and probably better. Sorry to pile on. > [@MustangSal](#): > > But it supports my theory that skilled trades are a reasonable path to the middle class The skilled trades can provide a job. Some of which have good security with a large company, and others of which are very seasonal bordering on day-laborer / casual. Some trades experience explosions and crashes of demand alongside the economy / stock market. Others are pretty steady demand through good and bad economic times. Whether that’s a path to “the middle class” depends on what you think “the middle class” is. A person who’s got decent skill at a trade _and_ a decent work ethic can certainly feed themselves except in the worst of recessions. But buying a house, raising a family, saving for a non-poverty retirement? All those things may well be out of reach for what most trades are paid in most of the country. OTOH compared to the semi-skilled white/pink collar jobs, the trades are probably less amenable to offshoring or automating. So they may be sucky jobs come 2050, but at least they’ll have jobs while the white/pink collar drones are all unemployed; replaced by somebody overseas or by an AI. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/24 "2021-01-22T20:55:41Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > The skilled trades can depreciate if technological advances take over the skilled part of their work or replace the person entirely. Welding comes to mind here, or at least in a factory environment. While welding can be automated on a production line with relatively straightforward joints, the application of skilled welding in construction, pipefitting, complex structures, et cetera. Skilled welders are in very high demand and will remain so for the foreseeable future, as will plumbers, electricians, finish carpenters, and other skilled trades. The push to emphasize the notion that everyone needs a “four year college education” started in the ‘Seventies and ramped up into the ‘Eighties until skilled trade work came to be looked down upon despite how utterly dependent our economic success is on such labor. Today, we have millions of people who are collectively carrying $1.6T of college and professional school debt, many of whom have degrees that are of no particular vocational use and are facing occupational obsolescence with the coming automation of intellectual labor. For too long we’ve looked at education as just another hurdle on the road to adulthood, rather than an opportunity that should be selected to complement individual skills and interests and provide the basis for being a functioning member of society rather than just credentials to obtain a job. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/25 "2021-01-22T20:58:18Z")
I am really curious if any of you that don’t think Skilled tradesmen make a good living actually know skilled tradesmen. I am not a skilled tradesmen. But I do know some. They do better than me financially. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/26 "2021-01-22T20:58:22Z")
Another factor is that many trade jobs are physically demanding, and beat up your body. Depending on the particular job, it may well include heavy lifting, work on your knees (or crouching), and possibly work that has a non-zero chance of causing you a serious injury, such as a severed finger or worse. The father of one of my best friends in college was a tradesman – he did carpet and flooring installation. He was very good at his job, took great pride in it, and in the 1980s, what he made was sufficient for a comfortable home (in a smaller city in Wisconsin), and putting all three of his kids through college. But, by the time I knew him, he was in his early 50s, and his hands and knees were shot. He was likely looking at working for another decade or more, in increasing pain and disability. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/27 "2021-01-22T21:00:39Z")
> [@Lancia](#): > > The only people who will be in that position are the people who deliberately squandered their college education by eschewing opportunities to network, perform internships, tutor peers, volunteer for leadership positions, and perform similar activities and gain valuable experience. Or, they’re education majors. I knew people fresh out of college with jobs as teachers making less than McManagers. > [@Lancia](#): > > … for many tradespeople their jobs are quite short-lived and unless they have the next job lined up, they’re screwed. If you’re working as an independent contractor, yes. If you’re working for your buddy who builds houses, yes. If you can get a job with a major builder, you can work year-round. Heck, my nephew does flooring. Has done enough that he now has his own company; multiple crews working multiple sites (3-4),. If you are a hard worker and get in with him, you’ll work 40+ hours every week. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/28 "2021-01-22T21:02:39Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Truck driving is a great middle class job now that is going to see changes in the near future. I know I recently heard a story (on NPR or something similar) that said that truck drivers were barely making anything, due to the way that the industry had moved over the past decade or so. Drivers were more likely to be “independent contractors” than in the past and the contracts put them at lower than minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/29 "2021-01-22T21:09:25Z")
I wonder if that would be better today? As a society we spend so much more effort into taking care of workers than we used to, even (I assume) the 80’s. I notice it mostly in eye and ear protection but I assume it carries over to other areas. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/30 "2021-01-22T21:11:35Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I wonder if that would be better today? Perhaps. As you note, things like eye protection and ear protection are common now, and weren’t then, but a physically demanding job that has you working on your knees, or hauling heavy loads, for much of the work day is going to take a toll on your knees and back, even with better back braces and knee pads. ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/31 "2021-01-22T21:11:52Z")
Elitist much? I heard on NPR that uneducated workers weren’t paid well enough. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/32 "2021-01-22T21:15:58Z")
**Modnote** : No more of this please … > [@MustangSal](#): > > Elitist much? Doesn’t even make sense in response to **amarinth** ’s post and even if it did, still insulting another poster outside of the pit. _This is just a guidance, not a warning. Nothing on your permanent record._ ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/33 "2021-01-22T21:23:51Z")
The whole thread is about the lack of respect for skilled trades. I am aware of my reputation in the bbq pit. But seriously. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/34 "2021-01-22T21:49:01Z")
As I pointed out in the other thread, dog grooming is a reasonably well paying job, doesn’t require a degree, and is very resistant to automation. But, there aren’t enough dogs for us all to be dog groomers. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/35 "2021-01-22T21:49:11Z")
> [@MustangSal](#): > > The whole thread is about the lack of respect for skilled trades. Despite your push back at my prior post, I have a great deal of respect for the skilled trades. One of my brothers is one. In my role as a condo association president I spend time every day on the phone with or in the company of skilled tradesmen. Some of whom are highly skilled and highly smart and highly motivated. And almost all of whom work darn hard every day. My question to you, which you ignored, is what “middle class” means to you? Many of these guys change jobs every 3 months as their employer goes out of business or just runs out of contracted work to offer them. Or they are caught goofing off or showing up high. Good worker or bad, even though I’m paying a hefty hourly rate to their employer, these guys see a small fraction of that money. “Middle class” used to mean you could buy a house, have your non-working spouse raise your two kids, take a vacation at a nearby lake or mountain or beach retreat every year, and retire with enough money to live on. And you could count on holding the same job with the same company for decades, not just weeks. @Dr.Winston_OBoogie’s nephew is apparently doing just fine. But he’s not a tradesman. He _was_ a tradesman. Now he’s a businessman with 15-20 employees or contract laborers under him. _They_ are tradesmen. Nobody that I’ve seen here is denying that the trades pay something; certainly better than working retail or restaurant. But it’s not at all clear to me as a very up close observer, that it offers what you suggest: “a reasonable path to a comfortable middle class lifestyle in America.” ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/36 "2021-01-22T21:50:30Z")
I’ve kind of gotten tired of the arguments in favor of blue collar trade jobs. It seems every ‘expert’ in the media seems to think no one should go to college and we should all go and work real jobs. One thing that isn’t often mentioned is the physical toil in many of these jobs. Can someone keep doing many of these jobs as they get older? ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/37 "2021-01-22T21:51:27Z")
> [@MustangSal](#): > > The whole thread is about the lack of respect for skilled trades. I dont think anyone in this thread has shown a “lack of respect” to skilled trades – please point me to the post if indeed I’ve missed it. I see that most posters recognize that the answer to your question is “it depends” while also recognizing that skilled tradespeople are vital to our country’s economic stability and growth. ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/38 "2021-01-22T21:51:54Z")
Not enough jobs for psychology majors either. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/39 "2021-01-22T21:59:19Z")
The fact is this this isn’t even close to being true. The “I heard it somewhere I can’t recall” argument is so last four years ago. If this were GQ I’d ask you to provide a cite. Good Day to you Sir! > **[How Much Does a Truck Driver Make?](https://blog.bisontransport.com/how-much-does-a-truck-driver-make-0)** > > But what should a truck driver expect in terms of salary? How much do other drivers make? These questions aren’t easy to answer because a wide range of factors affect a driver’s salary, including the equipment they drive, whether they are an... ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229/40 "2021-01-22T21:59:19Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > @Dr.Winston_OBoogie’s nephew is apparently doing just fine. But he’s not a tradesman. He _was_ a tradesman. Now he’s a businessman with 15-20 employees or contract laborers under him. _They_ are tradesmen. Not everybody with a psychology degree is a successful psychologist. Some people get get a psychology degree and work in a clerical job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skilled-trades-are-a-viable-path-to-the-middle-class/931229.md?page=3)