# Skills and facts average Englishman of today could teach to Englishman of 1015 AD?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [August 26, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986 "2015-08-26T20:50:34Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/41 "2015-08-28T02:11:50Z")
Oh, ouch.
> [@Tamerlane](#):
>
> Related current thread in [IMHO](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=766039).
And in it there’s a reference to a story where the time travelling hero set up a brandy still as his first commercial venture. That sounds like a good choice to me.
---
### Author:  [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/42 "2015-08-28T09:01:16Z")
> [@dunkleosteus](#):
>
> There are certainly some things that could revolutionize their world that are not terribly hard to make, (like gunpowder) but I’m not sure the average Englishman knows how to make it either (iirc, like 75% charcoal, 15% sulfur, 10% potassium nitrate?) he’d have to know what salt peter looked like as well, which isn’t easy.
And your mixture there would barely make a rapid-lighting barbecue. The potassium nitrate needs to be the majority ingredient; IIRC you have the wrong percentages for all three ingredients - to be fair I have not looked up the recipe.
For saltpetre I think I’m looking for a whitish crystalline deposit on the surface of a dung heap, and with a lot of scraping, dissolving, evaporating and recrystallisation I might get something I could test with some thin fibres of old rope. But to be honest, once I’d managed to make myself understood I could probably do a lot for society by teaching them how to make a wheelbarrow.
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### Author:  [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/43 "2015-08-28T09:24:51Z")
Remember the butterfly’s wing.
Eliminating the Plague would lead to massive famine and political disasters as the too-damned=many people survive and breed.
You would destroy the history which created you.
Open your mouth and your great-great-great-great-gransparents never exist, let alone breed.
What happens to you?
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### Author:  [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/44 "2015-08-28T10:15:08Z")
Don’t turn anyone into a newt.
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### Author:  [@upend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/upend)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/45 "2015-08-28T12:42:22Z")
> [@JustinC](#):
>
> Don’t turn anyone into a newt.
I got better
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### Author:  [@dunkleosteus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dunkleosteus)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/46 "2015-08-28T13:24:17Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#):
>
> And your mixture there would barely make a rapid-lighting barbecue. The potassium nitrate needs to be the majority ingredient; IIRC you have the wrong percentages for all three ingredients - to be fair I have not looked up the recipe.
>
> For saltpetre I think I’m looking for a whitish crystalline deposit on the surface of a dung heap, and with a lot of scraping, dissolving, evaporating and recrystallisation I might get something I could test with some thin fibres of old rope. But to be honest, once I’d managed to make myself understood I could probably do a lot for society by teaching them how to make a wheelbarrow.
Right, I looked it up. I had the proportions right but in the wrong order. It’s 75% saltpetre, 15% charcoal, 10% Sulfur. Thanks for the correction.
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### Author:  [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/47 "2015-08-28T15:29:19Z")
> [@dunkleosteus](#):
>
> Right, I looked it up. I had the proportions right but in the wrong order. It’s 75% saltpetre, 15% charcoal, 10% Sulfur. Thanks for the correction.
Of course, armed with the knowledge of the scientific method and the awareness that those numbers had to be plugged in _somehow_, your time-traveller would get the powder doped out in just a few attempts.
And the scientific method itself would be a couple of centuries in advance of Roger Bacon and a more than worthwhile transplant, if only you could sell it to the locals.
The medical improvements might be a little more tolerable if we could get the crop-rotation system up and running, even on just something half-remembered like “grain, roots, beans, pasturage, rinse and repeat” - and again, if you can couple it with the scientific method then it’s not just a case that “this will work because the funny man says so” but “this will work because we have tried it and seen it work”.
Incidentally, Hastings is no bad place at all to fight. Just pass the word “Hold the shield-wall and don’t charge downhill if the enemy seem to be breaking, or their horse will cut you to pieces before you can get back to high ground”. Or keep quiet on that, because it’s possible that the Norman Conquest was a net good in the long run.
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### Author:  [@dunkleosteus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dunkleosteus)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/48 "2015-08-28T15:49:31Z")
Come to think of it, you don’t even need guns if you have the black powder. It’s really volatile and I think the Chinese had a system where it was attached to arrow heads and exploded on contact. I’m sure as a scare tactic alone it would be incredibly impressive.
So yeah, if he knows how to make black powder, that’s useful. Then the scientific method, a few medicinal bits and pieces, sanitation, (the fact that north america exists), math, and probably more.
Also, if this Englishman has a son, he should bring him too. (I’d say daughter, but I don’t think it would work as well in the time period). His son would know enough about our world that when the Englishman grows old (probably still long before most of what he could teach was taught) his son could carry on with the modern knowledge. Maybe the son could have a son too and then they could get that kid up to speed on how it all works. Would probably be good to better the longevity of the situation.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/49 "2015-08-28T15:53:32Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#):
>
> Nobody would understand you, especially pre-Norman invasion. Your accent would also be foreign to them pre Great Vowel Shift. Unless you could speak passable Latin and pass yourself off as a priest you’d have to try and understand Late Old English, which reads like [this](http://public.oed.com/aspects-of-english/english-in-time/old-english-an-overview/);
>
> - ‘Ðunor cymð of hætan & of wætan. Seo lyft tyhð þone wætan to hire neoðan & ða hætan ufan.’\*
>
> From Ælfric of Eynsham, who died circa 1010 A.D.
So, he could teach them proper English! And proper spelling.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/50 "2015-08-28T15:54:59Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#):
>
> Of course, armed with the knowledge of the scientific method and the awareness that those numbers had to be plugged in _somehow_, your time-traveller would get the powder doped out in just a few attempts.
>
> And the scientific method itself would be a couple of centuries in advance of Roger Bacon and a more than worthwhile transplant, if only you could sell it to the locals.
>
> The medical improvements might be a little more tolerable if we could get the crop-rotation system up and running, even on just something half-remembered like “grain, roots, beans, pasturage, rinse and repeat” - and again, if you can couple it with the scientific method then it’s not just a case that “this will work because the funny man says so” but “this will work because we have tried it and seen it work”.
>
> Incidentally, Hastings is no bad place at all to fight. Just pass the word “Hold the shield-wall and don’t charge downhill if the enemy seem to be breaking, or their horse will cut you to pieces before you can get back to high ground”. Or keep quiet on that, because it’s possible that the Norman Conquest was a net good in the long run.
I imagine standard weights and measures would be a new thing back then.
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### Author:  [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/51 "2015-08-28T16:32:35Z")
> [@dunkleosteus](#):
>
> So yeah, if he knows how to make black powder, that’s useful. Then the scientific method, a few medicinal bits and pieces, sanitation, (the fact that north america exists), math, and probably more.
If he really wants to do the human race a solid, he should try to convince people that the Americas do _not_ exist, and that anyone who sails too far west will be sucked into a giant whirlpool. He could save millions of lives.
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### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/52 "2015-08-28T16:38:24Z")
The problem with virtually all these suggestions is that as a practical matter none of these things would have an impact. These inventions or knowledge are things that have proven their worth over centuries and/or been shown to be true in extensive experiments and studies. These are not things that people a thousand years ago would accept or have any reason to.
The only thing I can think of offhand that might be impressive is you can prove that heavy and light objects fall at the same speed (absent wind resistance). That might be impressive to some people back then, though I don’t know what you can do with it.
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### Author:  [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/53 "2015-08-28T16:49:49Z")
> [@astorian](#):
>
> However you choose to present the lesson, basic sanitation is the big thing. If you could just get people to bathe and clean up their garbage, the rats and lice that lead to plague could be kept in check.
>
> And ANY kind of sewage system could prevent typhoid and a host of other diseases.
>
> Those are things that wouldn’t require specialized knowledge or skills, and that almost any modern Englishman could teach.
Teaching proper sanitation and thus drastically reducing death rates may not be a great thing if there isn’t an Industrial Revolution as part of the package, you’d be setting off a population bomb.
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### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/54 "2015-08-28T17:03:54Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#):
>
> His knowledge of Arabic numerals and their benefits over Roman numerals.
Hindi-Arabic were already know in Europe in 976: [History of the Hindu–Arabic numeral system - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Hindu%E2%80%93Arabic_numeral_system), but were dismissed as too hard to use. It wasn’t for three centuries that a certain Leonardi of Pisa, Bonacci’s son (who later developed an interest in the mating of rabbits) spread it widely for the purpose of keeping accounts. He had learned it while managing his father’s business interests in North Africa. But I don’t think a random time traveler would have had any influence.
Any attempt at being a seer would doubtless get him burnt at the stake.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/55 "2015-08-28T17:29:28Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> The problem with virtually all these suggestions is that as a practical matter none of these things would have an impact. These inventions or knowledge are things that have proven their worth over centuries and/or been shown to be true in extensive experiments and studies. These are not things that people a thousand years ago would accept or have any reason to.
>
> The only thing I can think of offhand that might be impressive is you can prove that heavy and light objects fall at the same speed (absent wind resistance). That might be impressive to some people back then, though I don’t know what you can do with it.
I can guarantee you that the ruler of any city-state who decided to be my patron would be the dominant power in his neck of the woods in a generation. Remember that a key part of the OP is that you are not treated like a witch. That is essential, and once that is overcome, the sky’s the limit, baby. Better living conditions, bettie weapons, steam power, the list goes on an on.
Now, I’ll admit that having studies physics in school and having worked in the sciences and engineering fields for a few decades might disqualify me as the “average Englishman”, but I think your conclusion is wrong.
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### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/56 "2015-08-28T18:05:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> I can guarantee you that the ruler of any city-state who decided to be my patron would be the dominant power in his neck of the woods in a generation.
If they decided to make you their patron. But they wouldn’t decide to make you their patron. And that’s the whole point.
You would be spouting a bunch of crazy talk that went against everything they knew to be true and which all the wisest people and contemporary scientists would dismiss as nonsense. Why would anyone accept that you knew better? (More below)
> [@](#):
>
> Now, I’ll admit that having studies physics in school and having worked in the sciences and engineering fields for a few decades might disqualify me as the “average Englishman”, but I think your conclusion is wrong.
If you are personally knowlegable enough and manually skilled enough so that you could personally put together something like a working steam engine or microscope using material and tools available at that time, then yes. But that wouldn’t be the “average Englishman” or average anyone else either. The average person could do very little if anything.
[I imagine the Professor from Gilligan’s Island might do a pretty job too …]
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/57 "2015-08-28T18:36:22Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> If they decided to make you their patron. But they wouldn’t decide to make you their patron. And that’s the whole point.
>
> You would be spouting a bunch of crazy talk that went against everything they knew to be true and which all the wisest people and contemporary scientists would dismiss as nonsense. Why would anyone accept that you knew better? (More below)
>
> If you are personally knowlegable enough and manually skilled enough so that you could personally put together something like a working steam engine or microscope using material and tools available at that time, then yes. But that wouldn’t be the “average Englishman” or average anyone else either. The average person could do very little if anything.
>
> [I imagine the Professor from Gilligan’s Island might do a pretty job too …]
I don’t think you need to do everything personally. I bet you could get a lot done by drawing pictures and teaching people to develop some things themselves. Teach a blacksmith the concept of building a can, with holes to let water in and out through pipes. Theach him how to make molds. Explain to him how a valve should work and leave him to experiment on them. You could just start him by building a kettle and a whistle on the spout, and tell him to scale it up, WAY up. I’d bet this is possible for a lot of relatively primitive technologies. One reason there was a steam revolution is that the concepts are simple, and craftsmen could understand them and build them all over the place.
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### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/58 "2015-08-28T19:07:07Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> I don’t think you need to do everything personally. I bet you could get a lot done by drawing pictures and teaching people to develop some things themselves.
Assuming you can convince them to do it, yes. You seem to be assuming that they will accept you as some sort of authority who is in a position to “teach” them things, but if you propose radical things they may see you as just a weirdo. Much like people who propose radical ideas and outlandish-seeming inventions nowadays.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/59 "2015-08-28T19:13:47Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> Assuming you can convince them to do it, yes. You seem to be assuming that they will accept you as some sort of authority who is in a position to “teach” them things, but if you propose radical things they may see you as just a weirdo. Much like people who propose radical ideas and outlandish-seeming inventions nowadays.
I wasn’t talking about gaining the political of being able to order the King’s crafstmen around. I was talking about multiplying your abilities to produce things by explaining the concepts to people who can start building new stuff.
Shit, if you get transported and are lucky you’re lucky enough to have a lighter or a ball point pen, there’s enough magic to dazzle anyone at the time. But I agree with somebody upthread who suggested gun powder has an excellent WOW factor.
---
### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skills-and-facts-average-englishman-of-today-could-teach-to-englishman-of-1015-ad/728986/60 "2015-08-28T19:24:45Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> I wasn’t talking about gaining the political of being able to order the King’s crafstmen around. I was talking about multiplying your abilities to produce things by explaining the concepts to people who can start building new stuff.
That’s exactly what I was talking about too. Imagine to yourself some guy comes along today with an idea for some gizmo that he claims can do all sorts of things that modern science doesn’t think are possible. Do you waste your time building the guy’s machine? Or do you dismiss him as some fool or scam artist and spend your time with other things? (Remember, you don’t know he’s a time traveler.)
> [@](#):
>
> Shit, if you get transported and are lucky you’re lucky enough to have a lighter or a ball point pen, there’s enough magic to dazzle anyone at the time. But I agree with somebody upthread who suggested gun powder has an excellent WOW factor.
That doesn’t count. The average person nowadays could not put together a lighter or ball point pen from raw materials (and I don’t know if machinery which could do it even existed a thousand years ago). Being able to show something that you’ve brought back from the present time is not the question in the OP.
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