# Skimming the surface: Scum Mafia FORBIDDEN thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 29, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896 "2010-01-29T15:18:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/1 "2010-01-29T15:18:16Z")
Since Chronos hasn’t started one, I’ll make one here. Pleez no one active in the game read this thread. Pleez no one post any spoilers from the spoiled view here. Also, I think Chronos still wants another couple potential subs if he can get them. Kthxbye. On to the game now that hopefully there’s enough nongame stuff to fill the mouseover text: **Alka’s** question to **Diggit** is pretty obviously because **Diggit** was very anti-vig as a townie in the last game, but he came out in favor of trading Town lives for information early in this game. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/2 "2010-01-29T15:22:38Z")
Also, there’s basically zero chance for the spawns to mess up the scum’s night kill if there are more than one scum still alive (and posting to the scum thread) unless the scum team is just horribly disorganized. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/3 "2010-01-29T21:18:39Z")
And while I’m talking to myself, I’m not sure why **story** thinks the third-place finisher on a two-lynch day won’t end up drawing a lot of suspicion and probably eventually getting lynched. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/4 "2010-01-29T22:14:13Z")
> [@](#): > > **Alka’s** question to **Diggit** is pretty obviously because **Diggit** was very anti-vig as a townie in the last game, but he came out in favor of trading Town lives for information early in this game. And as such a rather good observation, especially given that there was no reason that that game, of all games, might have led someone’s negative opinion of vigs to naturally evolve away from that stance. I thought you were playing this, Tom. No time? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/5 "2010-01-29T22:41:02Z")
I was planning on starting this thread once we had our first death, since usually much of the discussion is from dead folks. But you came up with a much better title than I could think of, so it’s all cool. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/6 "2010-01-29T22:50:23Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I thought you were playing this, Tom. No time? Yeah. On the plus side, my boss noticed that I was being slammed. On the minus side, my boss asked me to document the ways in which I was being slammed so that she could justify to HER bosses getting me some kind of relief. Add to that that we’re moving in about three weeks, and it seemed like a bad idea to get into another Mafia game. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/7 "2010-01-30T03:43:05Z")
I get the strong feeling that fluid is trying to bait peeker. That whole bullshit about the “tone” of the game, is a little too personal for my tastes in mafia. Personally, I like having peeker in games (even though we usually disagree and he spends half the time trying to lynch me), he adds a little curry to the proceedings. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/8 "2010-01-30T04:24:52Z")
I wish Special Ed would get off of Meeko’s back. Seriously, that was a cheap shot and completely uncalled for. I think he did back off, though, so that’s good. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/9 "2010-01-31T02:13:46Z")
I’m surprised that no one has brought up any points about the secondary lynch. Some people are insisting on their votes being used as pressure instead of for lysing spawn. Except that’s a good way to give scum more control over the actual lynch. After a controversial/close lynch I hope that people look real closely at anyone with two votes out there not voting for spawn. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/10 "2010-01-31T05:37:52Z")
It looks to me like **sachertorte** has made that exact argument, actually. And he’s gotten votes for making it, so others are discussing the idea, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/11 "2010-02-04T15:11:47Z")
I don’t get **sachertorte** ’s argument that allowing double votes favors scum; if I were scum, the last thing I’d want to do is put votes on two players, thereby guaranteeing that there were at least two players paying some degree of attention to me. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/12 "2010-02-04T19:20:55Z")
> [@Scum mafia: On Cecil pond \[Game Over\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/655): > > I think a better anaolgy is in the middle of a baseball game, with a runner on 1st and no outs, the safe play, your play, would be to bunt the player over to 2nd base. It probably leads to the most likely chance of scoring a run. > > A more aggressive play would be a hit and run, sure, you might end up in a double play, but you might also get a big inning. > > It’s different, yes, but not ‘wrong’ Nah. sach is advocating the percentage play, which is to let the player bat; story is pointing out that sometimes you’ll want to bunt the man over, even though it reduces your expected runs scored for the inning, for strategic or tactical reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/13 "2010-02-04T19:38:11Z")
> [@Scum mafia: On Cecil pond \[Game Over\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/649): > > I suddenly understand **Pleonast** a lot better. 😃 Yep, I’ve been down the road **story** is on now many times. While I think Lysing two players is very suboptimal\* under almost any conditions, **sach** is hounding **story** way too much. **story** is not voting for two players. Presenting an idea is pro-Town. I’m surprised **sach** is complaining about that. I think what we’re seeing is the effect of two good players get caught up emotion of the game. It’s the tunnel vision that seems to be unavoidable while playing the game. \*Why isn’t anyone working out the mislynch numbers? I did the analysis, and voting two players at a time is extremely bad in mislynch terms. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/14 "2010-02-04T19:43:39Z")
I can see circumstances where double-lynches could make sense, but they pretty much come down to late-game play with a bunch of confirmed or mostly-confirmed town shrinking down the pool of unconfirmed, then cleaning up the spawns, then searching for a Godfather if the game is still going on. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/15 "2010-02-04T19:47:19Z")
Okay, so this isn’t really an analysis post, but there’s something I wanted to say, and I almost hijacked the thread to say it. Keep the personal attacks out of Mafia. I’m THIS close to starting to report posts in the thread and start a huge fuss over this stuff. And, honestly, I don’t get why the game has to get personal. We frown so much on emotional reasoning, requiring logical reasons for every decision we make. But when games get emotional, I can’t help but think people use their emotions to guide them, and then rationalize it later. I say it’d be better to let people vote for emotional reasons (knowing that it will look suspicious) than forcing them to lie about their motivations. Either that, or do your best to keep emotions out. BTW, I don’t care if the sach/story thing is Town-on-Town or Scum-on-Scum or Scum-on-Town. Heck, even if it’s Town-on-Scum, like story seems to think, I’m rooting for whichever side sach is not on. (And based on #650, which seems to be someone rationalizing a radically different playstyle, and the general style of not letting other topics be disucssed, I’m gonna go with “Go Town” [i.e. sach is scum]) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/16 "2010-02-04T20:10:41Z")
OK, I wanted to watch the first day unspoiled, but now I cry: **Spoil my ass, Chronos.** ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/17 "2010-02-04T23:09:13Z")
OK, Tom, consider yourself spoiled. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/18 "2010-02-07T18:25:15Z")
[post=8891712]Monkgate?[/post] (The link takes you to the start of the Day of Monkgate.) Idle Thoughts posting in huge font! Zuma voting Top Dog! … and posting while three sheets to the wind. All on **Day 9** of what is still the longest game we’ve ever had on this board. I think it went to 14 in the end. I actually paid up the first time in order to play in that game. (I’d had my 30 days free posting by then.) Those were the days. [/throathammer] ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/19 "2010-02-07T20:52:39Z")
14 Days? Did the protective roles just get really, really lucky, or did someone actually create a 30+ player game with no extra killers? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896/20 "2010-02-07T23:25:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > 14 Days? Did the protective roles just get really, really lucky, or did someone actually create a 30+ player game with no extra killers? It was a mix of stuff. [The roles](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8714490&postcount=2). There were more than 30 players. The Crusader died early, and the Psychopath never activated. The Sekhamites had a one-shot recruitment option that required foregoing killing, and used it on one of the recruit-immune players. There were two protective roles, one of which had a misfire chance. And finally, the game came down to three-handed Mafia. Of the final three, only DarkCookies has played any game since. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skimming-the-surface-scum-mafia-forbidden-thread/526896.md?page=2)