# Skip Star Wars : Rogue One and go see La La Land instead **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 18, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013 "2016-12-18T01:00:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/81 "2017-01-23T17:59:24Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Jesus, who cares? Not everything has to be religiously vetted to make sure that it has exactly the proper percentage of whatever race. Well, speaking as one white moviegoer whose opinion is statistically entirely negligible, _I_ care. I don’t want individual movies to be “religiously vetted” for racial quotas, but it’s the aggregate effect that’s annoying me. I am getting damn tired of seeing _so many_ mainstream movies that are still _so white_. More and more, the people I see around me are a mix of obviously diverse races and ethnicities. And when I go to a movie and see nine out of ten speaking characters cast as white people (not to mention overwhelmingly white extras in background crowds), that pulls me out of the experience. I think _“wtf, this is not set in a small midwestern town or on a prep-school crew team, what’s with having almost nobody but white people here?”_ Such lazy white-default casting is getting to look less and less realistic, and consequently more and more tired. And as a result _I’m_ getting more and more tired of seeing it over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/82 "2017-01-23T18:02:49Z")
> [@GovernmentMan](#): > > It’s the best movie you’ll see all year I spoke today to an older guy who’d seen it with his wife and he said that they both thought it was not good. He said that the dancing on Come Dancing was far better. He noted that the actress had learned to dance for the film and that the actor had learned to play the piano for the film and that both had just learned was very evident. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/83 "2017-01-23T22:58:54Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Such lazy white-default casting is getting to look less and less realistic, and consequently more and more tired. And as a result _I’m_ getting more and more tired of seeing it over and over. I just couldn’t care less. I’m going to a movie to have a good time and forget about the wider world for a little while, not get my undies in a twist about the racial diversity of a movie’s cast. And really… La La Land had like 15 actual characters anyway, and not all of them were white, just the two leads. ISTR that one of her roommates was hispanic, the jazz guys were black and most of the guys in John Legend’s band (can’t remember the name) were black. It’s not like the movie was that lily white really. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/84 "2017-01-23T23:55:46Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I just couldn’t care less. Lucky you. There are a whole bunch of things that I can be cheerfully oblivious to in movies, like all sorts of cinematographic effects or how the background music fits in, but some things I find just unignorable. Like whether the dialogue in historical films uses modern anachronisms, or whether characters who are supposed to be struggling young urbanites live in huge comfortable apartments, or whether supposedly middle-class female characters are shown in like seventeen different elegant outfits over what’s alleged to be a four-week time interval, or whether the cast is unrealistically disproportionately white. All that shit’s just lazy, you know? It just seems like it would have been so easy to fix such issues so they wouldn’t grate on viewers who happened to notice them, but whoever was handling them apparently didn’t even care about plausibility. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/85 "2017-01-24T01:25:40Z")
And didn’t care at all about trying to fix the problem of minority actors being locked out of the majority of roles for no justifiable reason. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/86 "2017-01-24T02:15:11Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Not to hijack, but did you see _Hail, Caesar!_? If so, what did you think of the “No Dames” dance, er, number in it? I have been wondering what somebody who really knew something about classic Hollywood tapdance numbers would say about it. I mean, yeah it’s obviously a parody, but it also seemed interestingly conceived. > > But I don’t really know anything about the merits of song-and-dance numbers. I haven’t seen _La La Land_ and am thinking I probably won’t bother. I just posted a few comments [on Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/sterling.hedgpeth/posts/1143252885787747) comparing the far superior numbers from the Coens to what Chazelle tries to do and (to these eyes) fails. It helps that Channing Tatum can dance and the choreography is playful with the boisterous energy believable. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/87 "2017-01-24T02:26:57Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > I’m surprised by the people who criticized Gosling and Stone for not being able to sing or dance. This is a tough crowd. I enjoyed the movie very much and was very impressed with Gosling singing, dancing and playing. I saw the movie twice and tried to watch carefully to see if they cut between his face and his hands while playing, or to watch his fingering on the piano. It looked to me like he was actually playing. > > Okay, they didn’t have opera quality voices, but that didn’t bother me. What was wrong with their dancing? For me, dancing is not just a physical act honed through practice, like any number of sporting activities (catching a ball, running an obstacle course, etc.). Both require dexterity, athleticism and an excellent sense of timing. But in musicals, dancing is often another form of acting–especially the kind of dancing that’s being attempted in LA LA LAND. Our suspension of disbelief that two people would just up-and-boogie to an invisible orchestra should be violated, but a good dancer will demonstrate that the dance is a way of manifesting that character’s state of mind. Even though it’s meticulously choreographed, a good dance will feel organic, spontaneous, and a natural extension of what that character is feeling. It’s by necessity dramatic. Novice dancers can rarely achieve that, melding the physical with the emotional with that level of precision. It takes enormous amount of training, which is why I compared it to _Dancing with the Stars_ (since I know the LLL choreographer does a lot of work on those competition TV shows). It always felt that Gosling & Stone were doing a routine, hitting their marks, counting the paces. It never felt loose or limber or real. Musicals are so heavily stylized that it raises the bar to feel that these two people are communicating and connecting through this unlikely physical act. And never once did I feel that between them. They were just doing their best. But a film like this needs so much more than just B-minus-for-Effort. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/88 "2017-01-24T14:32:38Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > One of the reviews of the movie (which I can’t find now) said the fact that neither lead was really a great singer added to the charm of the movie. “Charm”? Like the charm of watching your 1st grader in a chorus? Great for the parents - hell on earth for strangers. I’m glad someone said that Stone/Gosling can’t really sing - that just saved me the cost of two tickets. I find 0 charm in people who cannot sing but try anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/89 "2017-01-24T17:44:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Not to hijack, but did you see _Hail, Caesar!_? If so, what did you think of the “No Dames” dance, er, number in it? I have been wondering what somebody who really knew something about classic Hollywood tapdance numbers would say about it. I mean, yeah it’s obviously a parody, but it also seemed interestingly conceived. Loved that scene! LOVED it. Saw both movies with my girlfriend (Caesar and La La), and I actually compared La La’s numbers unfavorably with the Caesar number, saying, “That’s how you really do it.” Hail Caesar didn’t really work as a story but it had some lovely parts. La La had neither. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/90 "2017-01-24T17:56:05Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > I just posted a few comments [on Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/sterling.hedgpeth/posts/1143252885787747) comparing the far superior numbers from the Coens to what Chazelle tries to do and (to these eyes) fails. It helps that Channing Tatum can dance and the choreography is playful with the boisterous energy believable. Yes, and the Dames number is a _brilliant_ sendup of cheesy 40s musical numbers that basically outdoes the originals. It’s worth the price of admission, really. Nothing in LLL is worth 1/20 that number. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/91 "2017-01-24T18:00:55Z")
Also, re Ryan’s supposed playing of the piano… As a mediocre piano player myself, my impression was that he was doing the fingerings in the movie but not playing the actual notes. Nor, would I _guess_ that the recordings on the soundtrack were of his playing. Unless he became genuinely first-class player for the movie, for that’s professional playing we hear. That said, I’m still impressed he could imitate the playing on screen as well as he could. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/92 "2017-01-24T19:23:56Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Hail Caesar didn’t really work as a story but it had some lovely parts. Sometimes the Coen’s work is like a big warm hug, nothing too much going on but it makes you smile and you feel better for it. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/93 "2017-01-24T21:12:55Z")
I really wanted to like LaLa Land because Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling are likeable, and I love a romantic musical. I didn’t actively hate it but I hate the fact that it will probably get Best Picture because it’s about Hollywood. Their voices were weak and particularly so when part of a larger number when the backup folks are belting it out. The chemistry wasn’t there and it was kind of a mess. I don’t know that I’ll see Rogue One since I haven’t been keeping up with Star Wars (and also I’m not sure I’m allowed to) but from what I’ve heard it’s got to be better than LLL. ---
**Author:** ![Paxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/50afbb/32.png) [@Paxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paxx)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/94 "2017-01-24T23:31:57Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Also, re Ryan’s supposed playing of the piano… As a mediocre piano player myself, my impression was that he was doing the fingerings in the movie but not playing the actual notes. Seems that he played the actual notes. [BBC News](http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-38593897): > [@](#): > > Ryan Gosling stars in it as a jazz musician and plays all the piano music on screen, learning from scratch after intensive training. [Hollywood Reporter](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/la-la-land-unrealistic-hollywood-dream-critical-acclaim-942793): > [@](#): > > Chazelle had planned on hiring a pianist double for close-up shots of Gosling playing, but near the end of rehearsals the director realized it wasn’t necessary. “I started shooting him with an iPhone and watching him play the pieces to measure out where his weak spots were,” he says. “But he was just nailing the pieces in entirety.” [Chicago Sun-Times](http://chicago.suntimes.com/entertainment/ryan-gosling-upped-his-keyboard-skills-for-la-la-land/): > [@](#): > > Preparing to play Sebastian the jazz musician “was a lot of work,” Gosling said, “but also was a great opportunity. I had always wanted to play piano well — so I got to learn a lot, and made strides toward that goal. It took three hours a day of practicing for three months. It was a lot of practicing, but it was well worth it.” ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/95 "2017-01-25T04:57:30Z")
> [@Paxx](#): > > Seems that he played the actual notes. It’s still not entirely clear to me. A lot (most?) of the time, the piano sound did not sound “live”–it sounded pre-recorded. Grabbing the sound of an upright from a live mic on the set would have sounded totally different that what we actually heard. But, I wasn’t there… He could also have been fingering what he had played earlier, of course. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/96 "2017-01-25T16:42:30Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I don’t know that I’ll see Rogue One since I haven’t been keeping up with Star Wars (and also I’m not sure I’m allowed to) but from what I’ve heard it’s got to be better than LLL. It’s a very good popcorn action blockbuster. But one of the flaws, as I saw it, is that they spent more time on character development for ancillary characters, and less on the main ones. I mean, at the end of the movie, we knew more about what made Saw Gerrera, Galen Erso and Orson Krennic tick than we did about Cassian Andor and Jyn Erso. Hell, K-2S0 was scarcely less developed as Andor, and his backstory was that he was reprogrammed by the Rebellion. All that said, it’s an extremely entertaining movie, and it does dovetail into Episode 4: A New Hope well, although it’s clearly a ret-con, as had there always been a huge fleet action at Scarif as shown in the movie, there would have been references to it throughout ANH, ESB and ROTJ, for one reason or another- why there were so few fighters to attack the Death Star, tactical changes at Endor due to experience at Scarif, etc… ---
**Author:** ![GovernmentMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GovernmentMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GovernmentMan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/97 "2017-01-25T21:00:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I saw “La La Land” last night. It was like watching paint drying. There was nothing interesting at all about the script, the dialogue, the performances—Gosling and Stone has zero charisma and zero chemistry. The original songs were a chore to sit through. The dancing was like watching pedestrians on a street corner. > > The sole scene in the movie that got me even a little bit excited was the pool party. The '80s cover band was supposed to be cheesy, but they actually got my toes tapping and humming along. The contrast between cartchy pop songs and the absolutely dismal original songs was stark. > > “Rogue One” was by no means a perfect movie, or maybe not even a good movie, but it was a much more diverting experience than this stack of wet cardboard left beneath an overpass. Are you kidding? The soundtrack was great. Certain songs get stuck in your head. And I’ve always been ambivalent about Emma Stone but she was lovely in this. Rogue One - and Star Wars in general - was a dreck. > [@ftg](#): > > Another pan here. > > I generally don’t like most musicals but I do like some. E.g., among modern musicals I think _Hedwig and the Angry Inch_ is superb. > > But _La La Land_? It’s terrible even by old school musical standards. > > Why is this getting any award attention at all? The story (you know, the thing that a movie is supposed to be _about_) is barely there at all. Just tiny snippets stranded here and there. Hardly adds up to a 20 minute short if you take out all the songs and the incredible amount of “dead air”. > > Yeah, lots of dead air. Overly long transition sequences. People just staring for a while. And on and on. > > Of course it had to jazz. Of course. Anything else would be … innovative. Best to stick to the obvious choice of genre. > > As to acting: Stone is a much better actress than what she shows here. It’s like watching someone in her first role. And Gosling is not just doing a poor job, he is completely miscast. This is not the role for this person at all. > > What a waste of time and money. Be forewarned. “Even by old school musical standards”? What are all these great new school musicals? Staring? I didn’t notice any staring. Were you watching the same movie? And this is Emma Stone’s best role and performance since Easy A. Like easily. > [@Acsenray](#): > > The more I think about it, the more angry I am getting about how absolutely terrible this movie is and how popular it is. It’s a great big turd. I think you need to get some taste. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/98 "2017-01-25T21:04:25Z")
> [@GovernmentMan](#): > > I think you need to get some taste. You are going ad hominem over a movie review? ---
**Author:** ![GovernmentMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GovernmentMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GovernmentMan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/99 "2017-01-25T21:11:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, speaking as one white moviegoer whose opinion is statistically entirely negligible, _I_ care. I don’t want individual movies to be “religiously vetted” for racial quotas, but it’s the aggregate effect that’s annoying me. I am getting damn tired of seeing _so many_ mainstream movies that are still _so white_. > > More and more, the people I see around me are a mix of obviously diverse races and ethnicities. And when I go to a movie and see nine out of ten speaking characters cast as white people (not to mention overwhelmingly white extras in background crowds), that pulls me out of the experience. I think _“wtf, this is not set in a small midwestern town or on a prep-school crew team, what’s with having almost nobody but white people here?”_ > > Such lazy white-default casting is getting to look less and less realistic, and consequently more and more tired. And as a result _I’m_ getting more and more tired of seeing it over and over. Dude, who cares. As someone not white and who grew up in the middle of LA and still lives here, none of the racial aspects of the movie rang false. This was a two-person movie with a literal handful of very very small roles, two of whom were people of color (black John Legend, Hispanic roommate). ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013/100 "2017-01-25T23:34:23Z")
I liked both movies a lot. I don’t see why you have to pick one or the other. I liken it to enjoying a nice Chinese food dish and also liking an Italian dish. Why can’t you just like both? Or neither or whatever? But for “La La Land” in particular, it fulfilled the one thing that I ask of ALL movies: it entertained me. I enjoyed it. Sure, it may have been fluffy, but one can enjoy a nice meringue pie once in a while and not have to live off organically-grown kale salad. (what’s with all my food metaphors?) It didn’t have to be deep, it didn’t have to be mind-blowing. It just had to be an enjoyable couple of hours. And it fulfilled that for me greatly. I liked the songs and the dance routines. I thought it was a fun movie. It was pure escapist fare. And it did it well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skip-star-wars-rogue-one-and-go-see-la-la-land-instead/775013.md?page=6)