# SkipMagic, Not A Complaint (Exactly) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568 "2005-06-30T19:00:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/1 "2005-06-30T19:00:40Z")
This is in response to [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6318026&postcount=41), in a now-locked thread. I thought I was being careful to attack the post, not the poster. I said, IOW, “you are being dishonest and stupid” with the implied addition of “in your post”. Not “you are dishonest and stupid”. If I was not careful enough, I apologize to you as mod and to **Scott Plaid** , but ISTM that this would have been OK in GD. Am I just not used to the standards in MPSIMS? Or was it the context of the thread? I am not questioning your judgement, and if there is no more way to explain it than “a judgement call by a mod”, so be it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Kaspar\_Hauser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Kaspar\_Hauser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaspar_Hauser)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/2 "2005-06-30T19:17:02Z")
There should be an exception to that rule when it concerns **Scott\_Plaid**. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/3 "2005-06-30T19:23:34Z")
_I_ wouldn’t have let you get away with “You are being dishonest and stupid” in GD. 🙂 Given the important of the difference between attacking the post and attacking the poster, you had best make it crystal clear you are talking about the post. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/4 "2005-06-30T19:27:31Z")
**Shodan** , I understand where you’re coming from. If you’d been a bit more careful, like saying something along the lines of “Your dishonest and stupid post…” then you’d probably have been in like Flynn. As it is, I wish that **Skip** could’ve happened to have been looking the other way at the time… but you know our mods. Jackbooted fascists to the bitter end 😉 I’d also like to say that the OP you were responding to is probably one of the most cowardly and slimey misuses of MPSIMS I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/5 "2005-06-30T19:37:16Z")
Finn, I believe you are dead wrong with some situations, such as with Elvis. However, I also believe you are right some of the time. Thus, your opinion carries more weight with me then with Shodan, who I believe to be a mindless bush-apologist. That being said, I can almost see where you are coming from, except that I was not trying to pit Shodan without being insulted, but simply post about a behavior I have seen exhibited before. Thus, I will take this moment to restate my OP from before, in a way many are likely to understand. Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh. I don’t like what goes on in GD. People talk nice to each other, then people read a minor point, and hi-jack it because they read it as hatebushhatebushhatebushhatebushhatebushhatebushhatebushhatebush, rather then what it actually said, which is “I think bush was wrong to do (blank) because of (blank)” In short, everywhere you go, people will read statements while wearing blinders, then accuse the other side of wearing blinder. Even my post is a case in point. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/6 "2005-06-30T19:47:07Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Finn, I believe you are dead wrong with some situations, such as with Elvis. Oy vey. You mean the time where **wring** and I took him to task for essentially making up a quote? Besides, as I pointed out in that thread, I don’t have any problems with **Elvis** and was more than happy to let the matter drop at the end of the thread. > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > However, I also believe you are right some of the time. Thus, your opinion carries more weight with me then with Shodan, who I believe to be a mindless bush-apologist. Point of order: Whatever else he is, **Shodan** is not mindless. > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > That being said, I can almost see where you are coming from, except that I was not trying to pit Shodan without being insulted, but simply post about a behavior I have seen exhibited before. **Scott** … you weren’t trying to Pit anybody, but you were talking about a behavior on the boards which pissed you off? Come on. Play straight with us now. You fucked up. The place to post about problems you’re having on the boards with various opinions is the Pit. You know that, and if you don’t, you should. Just apologize and learn from your mistake. Dopers generally respect someone who can admit when they’re wrong and learn from it. > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Thus, I will take this moment to restate my OP from before, in a way many are likely to understand. > > Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh. I don’t like what goes on in GD. People talk nice to each other, then people read a minor point, and hi-jack it because they read it as hatebushhatebushhatebushhatebushhatebushhatebushhatebushhatebush, rather then what it actually said, which is “I think bush was wrong to do (blank) because of (blank)” And those sentiments _don’t_ belong solely in the Pit? Come on. Even as a restatement, if you meant anything close to that, you should’ve posted in the Pit. > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > In short, everywhere you go, people will read statements while wearing blinders, then accuse the other side of wearing blinder. Even my post is a case in point. Except there are no ‘sides’ right now. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/7 "2005-06-30T20:06:48Z")
He said he was sure of something. You said while he is likely to be correct, he should not have called it a know fact, just something very likely. There was stuff in there about him not producing a link he said he saw, true, but it kept on coming back to “likely” vs. “true.” Kinda like what I was saying in the OP of the thread under discussion. > [@me](#): > > Judging from all the evidence on hand, it is extremely likely that [del]Bush[/del] O’Reily lied. However, people look at arguments in favor of [del]Bush[/del] O’Reily’s bald-faced lying, and come away from it with the idea that people are making the claim that bush lied, proof-positive. > > Thus, I ask that rather then make the claim that bush lied, that dopers use phrases like “[del]Bush[/del] O’Reily almost certainly lied.” Or, “All evidence points to [del]Bush[/del] O’Reily’s lying.” > [@Finn](#): > > Point of order: Whatever else he is, **Shodan** is not mindless. Cite? All the thread I see him in, he posts easily refutable strawmen, never talks about culture, or his favorite book, or anything. Just about how the current president is completely right. He may have done so in the past, but while I read old threads, I have yet to see evidence of this. > [@Finn](#): > > And those sentiments _don’t_ belong solely in the Pit? Come on. Even as a restatement, if you meant anything close to that, you should’ve posted in the Pit. That is right. Last time I talked about a specific behavior that affected lots of people, I got a large amont of posts saying I was so fucking wrong., and a few agreeing with me. I figured since the behavior is shown in places in RL, the fluffy crowd of Misc. might be able to provide similar examples. GD problem have been discussed before in places besides the Pit, or GD. > [@Finn](#): > > Except there are no ‘sides’ right now. Can you please elaborate? I don’t understand what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/8 "2005-06-30T20:11:21Z")
i can vouch for shodan’s mindfulness, but cannot cite anything as 99% of my experience stems from _somewhere else_. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/9 "2005-06-30T20:27:22Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > He said he was sure of something. You said while he is likely to be correct, he should not have called it a know fact, just something very likely. ~le sigh~ No. I said that the situation was likely, the quote was flat out untrue. I gave numerous examples to highlight exactly why this was the case, pointing out that there’s a huge difference between something happening, and someone saying “this is what happened and I did it.” > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Kinda like what I was saying in the OP of the thread under discussion. Which belonged in the Pit. > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Cite? No. I believe he is wrong. I believe he comes to conclusions which are wrong. I believe he holds axioms which are wrong. But he is an intelligent poster. And that’s the last I’m saying on that. > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > GD problem have been discussed before in places besides the Pit, or GD. Like where? Show me an OP where someone was complaining about behavior in GD outside of the Pit and chances are I’ll show you a post that the Mods missed. **Skip** made it rather clear for you. If you’re going to make posts like that, use the Pit. > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > That is right. Last time I talked about a specific behavior that affected lots of people, I got a large amont of posts saying I was so fucking wrong. Welcome to the Dope. > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I figured since the behavior is shown in places in RL, the fluffy crowd of Misc. might be able to provide similar examples. Come on. You honestly think that just because it happens in meatspace it can go in MPSIMS? So a rant on how stupid group X is for saying thing Y can go in MPSIMS just because people may’ve seen it in real life? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/10 "2005-06-30T20:31:19Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Last time I talked about a specific behavior that affected lots of people, I got a large amont of posts saying I was so fucking wrong., and a few agreeing with me. Did it ever occur to you to ask yourself why the disproportion in the responses? And I am trying hard not to interpret the above as “Last time I shot my mouth off, I got slapped down hard. So I thought I would try it in a forum where I could get away with it.” I don’t want to hijack my own thread by flaming you too hard, so methinks I will await your response, if any. You want to call me out for something you don’t like, you are now in the forum where such things are done. Bring it on, sonny. 😛 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/11 "2005-06-30T20:43:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Did it ever occur to you to ask yourself why the disproportion in the responses? Not really. After all I “know” I am right about my comments in Hacker v. cracker. However, I received no positive responses till hours into the thread, and even the next day. Had my thread remained open, I am sure more people who read and understood the op would have posted, later this evening. > [@](#): > > And I am trying hard not to interpret the above as "Last time I shot my mouth off, I got slapped down hard. Here is one. I am annoyed with a behavior. Not annoyed enough to pit it, though. I will comment on it in a place where people discuss things without reverting to insults. Then, when people asked for clarification, I linked to a problem behavior of yours. You act like people are filled with an all-consuming, irrational hatred of bush, rather then hating him cause of his actions. Sure, I was annoyed at your claiming this, but it may have just been someone else, since I see this same disingenuous claim being made wildly by others. > [@](#): > > I don’t want to hijack my own thread by flaming you too hard, so methinks I will await your response, if any. You want to call me out for something you don’t like, you are now in the forum where such things are done. Well, I just did, thought it isn’t very angry or ranting. > [@](#): > > Bring it on, sonny. 😛 Sonny? :dubious: How old are you? ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/12 "2005-06-30T20:45:08Z")
I know that **Gaudere** has already said it, but I think it bears repeating: the line between insulting a post and a poster is pretty thin, so it’s best to avoid the doubt, leave out the implications and let the readers know what you’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/13 "2005-07-01T10:33:16Z")
**Scott** , your votes will probably coincide with my votes 95% of the time, and my votes will coincide with **Shodan’s** maybe 5% on the time, but he’s right on this count. Namely: 1. Unless you’re prepared to refer to a specific lie via cites, you DO need to qualify your statements. 2. Your backhanded pitting of him seemed dishonest and stupid. Personally, I think the evidence is overwhelming that Bush engaged in a sustained campaign of deception regarding WMDs in Iraq, but was very careful never to utter an actual, proveable lie. He only fucked up once, in a claim about the yellowcake document, and in that instance he inadvertantly said something untrue in an effort to deceive the public. Since lying has two components (saying something untrue in an effort to deceive), he managed to tell a lie here without quite meaning to. Quite a feat. There was a thread about six months ago IIRC that ended with everyone, Republicans included, conceding that this was a lie on Bush’s part; the discussion moved on from there to whether it was a justifiable lie. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/14 "2005-07-01T12:09:11Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > I know that Gaudere has already said it, but I think it bears repeating: the line between insulting a post and a poster is pretty thin, so it’s best to avoid the doubt, leave out the implications and let the readers know what you’re doing. Fair enough. Again, my apologies for the lapse. > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Not really. After all I “know” I am right about my comments in Hacker v. cracker. However, I received no positive responses till hours into the thread, and even the next day. Had my thread remained open, I am sure more people who read and understood the op would have posted, later this evening. So you are proposing that, the longer a thread is open, the more likely people are to chime in and agree with you? How long would you say this thread needs to be open before there is a general chorus of “ **Scott Plaid** is absolutely right!” > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Here is one. I am annoyed with a behavior. Not annoyed enough to pit it, though. I will comment on it in a place where people discuss things without reverting to insults. That would be GD, if I am not mistaken. > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Sonny? :dubious: How old are you? Older than you - trust me on this. I suspect I’ve got stuff in my refrigerator that’s older than you. Thanks to all who have responded. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/15 "2005-07-01T12:58:07Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > All the thread I see him in, he posts easily refutable strawmen, never talks about culture, or his favorite book, or anything. **Shodan** fairly recently started a Cafe Society thread game which was about identifying stories/novels from their last line. Quite fun. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/16 "2005-07-01T14:02:33Z")
what **LHOD** said. **Scott Plaids** thread to me was clearly a direct personal problem with another poster. where **Shodan** erred is in his response, he should have posted that response in the pit, and in the thread merely linked to it. FWIW (probably none), I saw the original thread as a more egregious error. Signed- founder of “LIberal but not a fucking lunatic Society” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/17 "2005-07-02T01:23:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you are proposing that, the longer a thread is open, the more likely people are to chime in and agree with you? > > How long would you say this thread needs to be open before there is a general chorus of “ **Scott Plaid** is absolutely right!” I’m not sure, but while we wait to find out, you want to read my copy of the complete works of William Shakespeare, written entirely by monkeys? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/18 "2005-07-02T03:27:31Z")
I find threads like this to be rather bracing, and affirming of my efforts at taking things at face value and not being blinded by my personal politics. Specifically, in this case I can say with head held high that while at minimum I disagree with **Shodan** on just about any political issue that you would care to name and while my politics probably tend to align much closer to those of **Scott Plaid** , at the end of the day I would have to say that one Shodan is probably worth 50 Scott Plaids in terms of value added to this board. **Scott** , your impenetrable writing style would be annoying enough on its own merit, but the sheer volume of it combined with your dishonest backhanded Pitting in the wrong forum is an embarrassment to those of us who do align with your politics. [Otaku](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=otaku), from your profile, seems all too fitting. For fuck sake man, we are under siege enough with the way that things are going in this country without having to worry about the folks that are supposed to be in our camp acting like monkeys flinging shit. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/19 "2005-07-02T13:14:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m not sure, but while we wait to find out, you want to read my copy of the complete works of William Shakespeare, written entirely by monkeys? Shouldn’t this go in Cafe Society? 😃 But thanks to you, and **Left Hand** and **Binarydrone** and **FinnAgain** and the rest for the warm comments. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568/20 "2005-07-02T15:15:37Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > After all I “know” I am right about my comments in Hacker v. cracker. However, I received no positive responses till hours into the thread, and even the next day. Had my thread remained open, I am sure more people who read and understood the op would have posted, later this evening. I’m sure glad you put the word _know_ inside quotation marks to indicate its ironic use. You were, in fact, wrong both in your history of the word (demonstrating ignorance of etymology) and in your attempt to provide a prescriptivist definition in the face of overwhelming evidence against you (demonstrating an ignorance of language usage). We’re here to fight ignornace, not support it. (Of course, this is exactly the sort of behavior that prompted the other thread currently running with your name on it, but I fear that you will not take the messages provided by these experiences.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skipmagic-not-a-complaint-exactly/310568.md?page=2)