# Sky Captain--Not Based on a Comic, right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 24, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880 "2005-04-24T17:57:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/21 "2005-04-25T19:50:57Z")
(slaps forehead with chagrin) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/22 "2005-04-25T20:49:51Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Yeah, but don’t you suspect that she got her last name from _The Shadow’s_ Margo **Lane**? > > If that’s the case, there might be something to the idea that Doc Savage’s and the Shadow’s names influenced “Clark Kent”, too. No, because as I said in my earlier post Margo Lane was introduced in 1941 **after** Lois Lane was already in the comic. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/23 "2005-04-26T02:36:27Z")
[nitpick] [Doc Savage: The Man of Bronze](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072886/combined) was not a TV movie–it just looked like one. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/24 "2005-04-26T03:30:24Z")
**Exapno Mapcase** wrote: > [@](#): > > No, because as I said in my earlier post Margo Lane was introduced in 1941 after Lois Lane was already in the comic. Sorry, **Exapno** , I missed that. But it desn’t seem to be entirely accurate. Although Margo Lane first appeared in the pulp version of **The Shadow** in 1941 (see various websites), she apparently appeared on the radio serial much earlier. According to this site, Agnes Moorehead played her (opposite Orson Welles’ Shadow/Lamont Cranston) in 1937, and I’m not sure how much earlier than that she first appeared on the radio: [http://www.cs.uku.fi/~vaisala/SHADOW/RadioSha.htm](http://www.cs.uku.fi/~vaisala/SHADOW/RadioSha.htm) That certainly predates Lois Lane. ---
**Author:** ![dangergene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@dangergene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangergene)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/25 "2005-04-26T04:02:54Z")
not to hijack this thread or anything, but… _Kent Allard_? I thought the Shadow was _Lamont Cranston_. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/26 "2005-04-26T04:07:14Z")
[http://www.pulps.westumulka.com/shadow](http://www.pulps.westumulka.com/shadow) > [@](#): > > The Shadow was originally the alter ego of Lamont Cranston, wealthy playboy whom at some stage in his life journeyed to the Orient where he learnt the power to cloud men’s minds in that he had powerful mass hypnotic powers. On the radio this took the form of being able to appear invisible (which was handy for a radio show). This power was not used to any great extent in the pulp novels, where he relied more on his guns and his mastery of disguise… Later on in the pulp novels it was revealed that in fact he was NOT Lamont Cranston, but in fact aviator Kent Allard whose plane crashed in the Orient, and that he took the disguise of Lamont Cranston… Even later on it was suggested that in fact the body of Kent Allard was found in the wreck of his plane in the Orient and that The Shadow was neither Lamont Cranston or Kent Allard! The Shadow’s “true” identity was always a bit… fluid. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/27 "2005-04-26T04:31:37Z")
I took the 1941 date from an online site that indicated Margo Lane was brought in later, but a more careful search seems to prove that you’re right and that’s wrong. But it still makes no difference, because a closer read of the Dooley article I cited has this to say: > [@](#): > > It was not until a year later on that famous night in 1934… that the vision of Superman as we know him – his flamboyant cape and costume, his otherwordly origins, and the unattainable Lois – crashed in on Seigel’s brain. She was Lois Lane from that 1934 start, before any success with professional publication, and again earlier than the radio show’s Lane. Lane must just have seemed a sufficiently WASPy short name to give a character. Two characters, probably independently. ---
**Author:** ![dangergene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@dangergene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangergene)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/28 "2005-04-26T09:37:59Z")
oh wow! Thanks **Askia** , much appreciated. Now, if only DC would release the Kyle Baker _Shadow_ series from the 80’s in TPB format. Back on-topic, does anyone know if we’ll see more of _Skycaptain_? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/29 "2005-04-26T09:57:22Z")
> [@dangergene](#): > > oh wow! Thanks **Askia** , much appreciated. > Now, if only DC would release the Kyle Baker _Shadow_ series from the 80’s in TPB format. It’s even more convoluted in that comic – it suggests that Kent Allard was a crook who stole the Lamont Cranston identity, crashed into Shang-gri la! Meanwhile the Shang-gri-La native we know as “The Shadow” took his identity and flew the plane to America to fight crime. Independently, Kent Allard made his way back to the west and made a fortune from a gambling empire, while replicated himself with near indestructible clones. Meanwhile The Shadow returned to Shang-Gri-La for a time, then returned to America with two paladdin in training sons, and killed off Cranston and his clones and usurped his identity AGAIN, along with his multimillion dollar empire. I think. It’s 6:00am. Andrew Helfer/Kyle Baker synergy is neat. It’s a pretty damn good run. I’l have to take it out and re-read it sometime… ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/30 "2005-04-26T11:08:27Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Lane must just have seemed a sufficiently WASPy short name to give a character. Two characters, probably independently. So what about the abundance of Ls, what’s the significance of Lois Lane, Lex Luthor, Lana Lang, etc? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/31 "2005-04-26T11:11:10Z")
> [@dangergene](#): > > Back on-topic, does anyone know if we’ll see more of _Skycaptain_? Currently the director/creator is working on a different movie (“John Carter of Mars”) so it’s anyone’s guess. The budget for it was a lot lower than widely reported, so they did make a profit, but it didn’t quite set the world alight like it should’ve, so they may be a bit discouraged by that. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/32 "2005-04-26T11:51:53Z")
> [@dangergene](#): > > oh wow! Thanks **Askia** , much appreciated. > Now, if only DC would release the Kyle Baker _Shadow_ series from the 80’s in TPB format. This will never happen. Conde Nast, the company that owns the rights to the Shadow, was so displeased with Helfer and Baker’s run (all the mayhem and comic violence, for example decapitating the Shadow and grafting his head to a robot body) that they revoked the rights or canceled the contract before the then-current storyline was completed. The series ended unfinished. Kyle Baker has since said in interviews that he considers his work on that series “mere work for hire,” doesn’t think highly of it, and would rather not see it again or refer to it much. DC followed with a much more traditional Shadow series, The Shadow Strikes! (set in the '30s and written by Gerard Jones), but that ran its course too. I believe Dark Horse was the latest company to publish Shadow comics, and I think they even did a Shadow/Doc Savage team-up. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/33 "2005-04-26T12:27:41Z")
“Seven Deadly Finns” wasn’t all that bad at all – I can’t imageine Conde Nast being upset with it, it’s very much in The Shadow tradition. But Helfer/Baker went off in a clearly bizarre direction with “Body & Soul” and the next storyline, the aborted “Nuts and Bolts,” would have been crazy mad stupid fun – both the Shadow and his archenemy Shiwan Khan had managed to get regular-heads-on-super-robot-bodies by then, and I wanted to see his operative’s reaction to the new Shadow abprupt resurrection. I always wanted to see what happened next and I feel cheated I didn’t I dunno what to make of Kyle Baker sometimes. I have a bunch of his work, including some work-for-hire stuff he’s done for VIBE, THE SOURCE and other music magazines. He’s an enormously talented individual. But he’s embarrassed by stuff he shouldn’t be (The Shadow), inordinately honored and proud of fluff work (Plastic Man), has a quirky sensibility (I Die At Midnight), refuses to arise to the occasion in potentially breakthrough projects (The Truth) and the rest of his stuff is just – weird (Cowboy Wally, Why I Hate Saturn). I still have’t read he and Aaron McGruder’s Birth of a Nation yet, but it’s on my shopping list. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/34 "2005-04-26T12:55:42Z")
I read Plastic Man #1-4 and they just didn’t do anything for me. But I love Why I Hate Saturn, I Die At Midnight, You Are Here, and Cowboy Wally Show. I’ve shown these graphic novels to people who don’t read comics and generally don’t have high opinions of them, but everyone enjoys these. I think that says a lot about his talent and universal appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/35 "2005-04-26T13:10:06Z")
I don’t understand why PLASTIC MAN is up for this year’s Eisner’s Best Humor Comic. I enjoyed COWBOY WALLY and WHY I HATE SATURN because of the artwork but I can barely tell you the comics’ details, other than to say that Cowboy Wally is a piece of work. I DIE AT MIDNIGHT had about the best story of the bunch because it was succinct and had a plot. And color! I guess my disappointment in THE TRUTH’s artwork still shows four years later. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/36 "2005-04-26T13:34:40Z")
> [@Dr. Rieux](#): > > [nitpick] > [Doc Savage: The Man of Bronze](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072886/combined) was not a TV movie–it just looked like one. > [/nitpick] It is also a profound embarassment to Doc Savage fans. If you really like your friends, you will not expose them to this turkey. As a matter of fact, we should all try as hard as we possibly can to talk and act as though this film was never made and doesn’t exist. Starting (one, two, three) _now._ ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/37 "2005-04-26T13:38:37Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > I believe Dark Horse was the latest company to publish Shadow comics, and I think they even did a Shadow/Doc Savage team-up. Yup, they did a Doc/Shadow teamup, and DC did a Doc/Shadow teamup, too. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/38 "2005-04-26T22:14:40Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > So what about the abundance of Ls, what’s the significance of Lois Lane, Lex Luthor, Lana Lang, etc? Alliterative names were favored by comic writers in all eras because they were thought to be easy for the fans to remember. Stan Lee used them all the time in the beginning of Marvel - Peter Parker, Reed Richards, Bruce Banner. I’m pretty sure that in the beginning, it was all just coincidence. Luthor wasn’t given the first name of Lex for many years after his debut, Lana Lang didn’t come about until they started the Superboy comic. After that, somebody realized that not only did the initials match, but Clark was Kal-El of the House of El. But this wasn’t intended either. Jor-L and Lora - there’s another L - were invented for the newspaper strip and didn’t make it into the comic until 1948. They became Jor-el and Lara also outside the comic book, in the 1942 novel _The Adventures of Superman_ by George Lowther. None of this was planned or coordinated inside the company. In fact, Lowther named the Kents Eben and Sarah, because he didn’t know that they had names at all, let alone that she was called Mary in Superman #1. Anyway, after the light dawned every Superman female was given LL initials as an inside joke - Lori Lemaris first then others. But at the beginning it was all disposable crap. Nobody gave a thought to continuity. They were making it all up as they went along. ---
**Author:** ![dangergene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@dangergene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangergene)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/39 "2005-04-27T01:12:34Z")
> [@Voodoo Lou](#): > > This will never happen. Conde Nast, the company that owns the rights to the Shadow, was so displeased with Helfer and Baker’s run Yeah, I knew that, but a fella can dream, can’t he? And I agree ( **Askia** , **Lou** ) with the comments about Baker’s variable quality:pride ratio. It’s just wierd. Plasticman is fun, but it’s far from his best work (actually, it’s pretty crappy in a lot of places- particularly the drafting quality, which often looks rushed and sloppy). I’ve often thought his best work is in the two _Kyle Baker, Cartoonist_ compilation books. These are just wonderful work, but so rarely get recognition. _I Die At Midnight_ is his best ‘mainstream’ work (I’m not including _Kyle Baker, Cartoonist_ because these aren’t traditional comic books, they’re close in style to the collection of New Yorker cartoons, Farside, etc). Oh, and **Exapno** , I was going to throw in Lori Lemaris too, but you said it all better than I could. Another double-letter name: Vicki Vale, who was instrumental in the early Batman serials (and comics?) during the 40s. ---
**Author:** ![dangergene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@dangergene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangergene)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880/40 "2005-04-27T01:14:07Z")
dammit! That should say ‘quality : pride ratio’. I didn’t put no smiley in there! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sky-captain-not-based-on-a-comic-right/300880.md?page=3)