# Skydiving: maneuvering during freefall? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 19, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812 "2022-12-19T21:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/1 "2022-12-19T21:58:03Z")
A long time ago, I thought it was impossible (in real life, of course) for skydivers to do anything but fall straight down before their parachutes opened. Since then, I’ve seen videos that have made me think otherwise. Formation skydiving, for example, where people maneuver to grab onto each other and form patterns with their bodies: > **[Formation skydiving](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_skydiving)** > > Formation skydiving is a skydiving event where multiple skydivers attach themselves to one another by grabbing each other's limbs or by the use of "grippers" on their jumpsuit while free falling through the sky. The goal of this skydiving program is to build a formation of multiple divers arranged in a geometric pattern. > Formation skydiving can be further divided into several sub-categories, so named for the number of members in a team: > A competition in 4-way formation skydiving (FS-4) takes pl... So, how do skydivers maneuver like that? Is it more or less intuitive or just the opposite? Do height, weight, etc. make a difference or is it pretty much the same for everyone? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/2 "2022-12-19T22:24:19Z")
> [@alovem](#): > > So, how do skydivers maneuver like that? The same way aircraft and birds maneuver, sailboats sail, kites fly, leaves flutter to the ground, etc.–a surface presented to a moving stream of air is moved about by that stream of air, moving differently depending on the shape and position of the surface. They move their body parts about to act as control surfaces. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2022, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/3 "2022-12-19T22:37:50Z")
Stick your hand out of the window of a moving car. Change the position of your hand. Feel the force of the wind pushing your hand. That’s how skydivers maneuver. ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/4 "2022-12-19T22:38:46Z")
To see the possibilities, check out [indoor skydiving](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyBc28v0DNY). ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/5 "2022-12-19T23:04:08Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > They move their body parts about to act as control surfaces. Yeah, you have quite a bit of maneuverability at lower altitudes even just with body form and with a wingsuit you can get a lot of glide and a lot of control. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/nRxSUkZYeOE/maxresdefault.jpg "Wingsuit Flying Formation in "The Crack" | Miles Above 3.0") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRxSUkZYeOE&t=4m26s) At higher altitudes where military parachutists do High Altitude Low Opening (HALO) and High Altitude High Opening (HAHO) jumps, however, you have to be careful to not develop too much spin or tumble because the diver doesn’t have enough aerodynamic affect to counteract it, and can actually pass out because of the body forces and their effect on circulation. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2022, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/6 "2022-12-20T01:33:45Z")
Think of a badminton birdie, it will fall straight down. But if you could manipulate the feathering, change the center of gravity relative to the drag, you could make it rotate, slide to one side or the other, relative to another birdie, etc. A skydiver in a stable arch position has their center of gravity around their navel, and their arms and legs giving a balanced drag, they’re falling straight down. Bend your heels to your butt, and stick your arms out the other way, and you’ll slide sideways in the direction of your knees. Stick your legs out stiffly and bring your hands to your shoulders and you’ll slide the other direction. Twist your torso so that an imaginary plane of your upper body and hands is 45 deg to the air and you’ll rotate like a windmill. It’s a hoot, I highly recommend it. ---
**Author:** ![Fortyfold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7c8e57/32.png) [@Fortyfold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fortyfold)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2022, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/7 "2022-12-20T03:21:17Z")
How can we have a post about skydiving without this Bond clip? (good examples of the maneuvers the stuntmen were making to do the scene) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/87MO-gtYFT8/maxresdefault.jpg "Moonraker (1/10) Movie CLIP - Enjoy Your Flight (1979) HD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87MO-gtYFT8) ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2022, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/8 "2022-12-20T05:39:39Z")
Ha ha - first thing I thought of when I saw the thread title… ---
**Author:** ![Danger\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Danger\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danger_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2022, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/9 "2022-12-20T10:41:29Z")
I’ve done this. There is probably a place nearby where you can try. You can get instructions and feel how it is to try to stay stable in the air. I absolutely recommend it. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2022, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/10 "2022-12-20T12:24:45Z")
> [@Danger\_Man](#): > > I’ve done this. Me too. You don’t get a lot of time in the wind tunnel for your money, but I was able to experiment just a bit with an instructor standing next to me and ready to grab me if (welll, _when_) things got out of control. In the standard belly-down freefall posture, I was able to yaw left and right by rotating my palms to deflect air left or right, but that was about as much control as I was able to exhibit in the few minutes I had. I couldn’t easily control fore-and-aft movement, and I also tended to develop an unstable fore-and-aft rocking action, prompting the instructor to reach out and steady me from time to time. I think with maybe 20-30 minutes of practice I could have achieved a stable freefall in the tunnel. To achieve the kind of maneuvering capability seen in the video shared by @3AxisCtrl takes, uh, a bit longer. Before indoor skydiving, people had to learn this stuff by jumping out of airplanes - which meant you got about thirty seconds of experience at a time. And from what I’ve seen, it was common to have two handlers with you during your learning dives to ensure you didn’t go completely out of control before it was time to pop your chute. In other words, learning to freefall was expensive as hell, and also time-consuming. two freefall handlers, a plane, a pilot, a chute repacker, and all the time associated with getting up to jump altitude (and the chute glide after your freefall). I’m guessing thirty seconds of freefall instruction probably took 30-45 minutes out of your day and a couple hundred bucks. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/11 "2022-12-20T14:54:11Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > Ha ha - first thing I thought of when I saw the thread title… I thought about _Point Break_. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/e7mSAvR_DUc/hqdefault.jpg "Point Break Skydiving scene") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7mSAvR_DUc) ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/12 "2022-12-21T17:38:28Z")
Thanks to those who tried to answer my question, especially to @outlierrn and @Machine_Elf for providing some details. I hadn’t thought about some of those things, like bending limbs selectively or cupping hands. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/13 "2022-12-21T20:30:32Z")
Where are they skydiving in that Point Break scene? Is that the Hoover Dam back when it had water? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skydiving-maneuvering-during-freefall/976812/14 "2022-12-21T21:16:22Z")
That looks like Lake Powell near Antelope Island to me. It’s a common filming location, and where Charleton Heston and his doppelgänger James Franciscus kept crashing into every time they went to the Planet of the Apes because apparently NASA could send spacecraft to other star systems but not manage to land them safely. Stranger