# Skyfall for those who've seen it - open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 27, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018 "2012-10-27T06:14:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/181 "2012-11-27T16:38:35Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > What I want Bond to be is an extremely cool guy. Like, a guy who became a spy because it was the hip thing to do; because it let him travel the world and sleep with beautiful women and generally not give a fuck about anything but being the coolest motherfucker in the room at all times. OK, I can’t be the only one who thought of [Archer](http://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/originals/archer/), right? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/182 "2012-11-28T08:23:18Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > OK, I can’t be the only one who thought of [Archer](http://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/originals/archer/), right? 🆒 I’m pretty sure Sterling Archer is what James Bond would be like if his parents were Don and Lucille Bluth, instead of tragically dead. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/183 "2012-11-28T12:01:33Z")
When did James Bond graduate from Action Hero to Super Hero? I don’t mind a little leeway for the sake of the story, but for God’s sake, the man was shot in the chest then gets on top of a train for an extended fistfight. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/184 "2012-11-28T12:25:05Z")
I don’t recall him being shot in the chest, just picked up some shrapnel and maybe a little spall from shots deflected by the cabin of the earth moving equipment. (Until, of course, Eve took her shot.) ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/185 "2012-11-28T15:48:59Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Overall I think it was a decent movie. I hope they don’t forget that Bond is a spy and not special forces. His primary goal should be to gather intelligence. Bond gathers intelligence by going places where normal folk can’t go, like the high-roller’s club. He fits in where he doesn’t belong by being cool. Exceedingly cool. If he kills people or gets into a fight, it should be an unintended consequence of his dangerous job, not the primary mission. Taking out a small squad of well equipped para-military assassins isn’t a job for a spy, it’s a job for special forces. I really don’t want or need my James Bond to be good at that sort of thing; hell, it should be beneath him. Actually this bit isn’t right. Bond is 007 - the 00 means he is “licensed to kill” - in other words he is one of SIS’s elite killers. He’s not a normal intelligence officer - running agents, collecting information, etc. He is send in when there is a high probability of violence, not necessarily an actual assasination but certainly where trouble is expected or force may need to be applied. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/186 "2012-11-28T15:58:06Z")
Yea, even in the books the amount of actual spying Bond does is pretty small. I read a few of them a year or so ago, and was amused by how fast the bad-guys figure out who Bond is in most of them. He’s really kinda terrible at his job. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/187 "2012-11-28T16:36:34Z")
It’s kinda hard to be really super secret spy guy when you constantly introduce yourself to the bad guy using your real name. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/188 "2012-11-28T16:37:17Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Actually this bit isn’t right. Bond is 007 - the 00 means he is “licensed to kill” - in other words he is one of SIS’s elite killers. He’s not a normal intelligence officer - running agents, collecting information, etc. He is send in when there is a high probability of violence, not necessarily an actual assasination but certainly where trouble is expected or force may need to be applied. The acme of this has to be THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS, where a high-ranking Soviet officer wants to defect, and so requests a little Western help escaping from his KGB minders; a Russian sniper will be standing by in case the would-be defector makes a break for it, and who better to play counter-sniper than James Bond? That’s not a rhetorical question: the Soviet officer personally requests James Bond, because he of course already knows exactly who 007 is and what he does. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/189 "2012-11-29T10:19:09Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > It’s kinda hard to be really super secret spy guy when you constantly introduce yourself to the bad guy using your real name. It’s worth mentioning in the books (and some of the movies), Bond often uses false identities and the cover of working for a vaguely defined business called Universal Exports. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/190 "2012-11-29T13:27:20Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It’s worth mentioning in the books (and some of the movies), Bond often uses false identities Oh, sure. I remember George Lazenby wearing a kilt and faking an accent, and of course getting found out. I remember Pierce Brosnan being handed all the credentials of a banker before promptly getting found out. I remember Roger Moore posing as a marine biologist named Sterling in Sardinia, and I remember Sean Connery acting like a businessman named Fisher in Japan, and – look, he’s _ **trying,** _ bless his heart, but he’s failing every time. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/191 "2012-11-29T13:40:10Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Oh, sure. I remember George Lazenby wearing a kilt and faking an accent, and of course getting found out. I remember Pierce Brosnan being handed all the credentials of a banker before promptly getting found out. I remember Roger Moore posing as a marine biologist named Sterling in Sardinia, and I remember Sean Connery acting like a businessman named Fisher in Japan, and – look, he’s _ **trying,** _ bless his heart, but he’s failing every time. True enough - but there wouldn’t be much of a story if Bond went in, got the whatever, and came home again! Maybe he has a lot of successful - peaceful - missions we never hear about? No confrontation with the villain, no fight; no fight, no box-office 😃 ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/192 "2012-11-29T15:05:05Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > True enough - but there wouldn’t be much of a story if Bond went in, got the whatever, and came home again! Maybe he has a lot of successful - peaceful - missions we never hear about? No confrontation with the villain, no fight; no fight, no box-office 😃 There have definitely been those. The _Quantum of Solace_ short story is actually about some guy and his wife, with Bond being told the story by another gentleman at a dinner party. There is a passing reference to Bond being in town on business, having successfully completed a mission earlier that day. It was a interesting story, but it wouldn’t have made a good movie. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/193 "2012-11-29T15:44:52Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I missed exactly why Bond had to fight the bad guys without help. Q and co knew where he was going, so they could lay a ‘trail of breadcrumbs’ for Silva. Are there no agents stationed in Scotland? No police that could help? No way of getting a few guns to Bond?.. I had the same thought. Surely there was a different military comm network that they could arrange for some heavy-duty SAS or Royal Marines reinforcements for Bond with Silva finding out. > [@Damfino](#): > > When I found out that the villain’s name was Silva I was expecting a connection with the White and Greene of the previous two movies. Likewise. I was halfway through the movie before I realized they were saying “Silva” and not “Silver.” > [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I really liked the movie, but then realized that Bond poetry much failed at everything except keeping himself alive. Bond poetry? You mean like the Tennyson which M recited at the hearing?: [Quote from Alfred Lord Tennyson Ulysess #skyfall | Digitalphilosophi's Blog](http://digitalphilosophi.wordpress.com/2012/10/26/quote-from-alfred-lord-tennyson-ulysess-skyfall/) > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Couple questions > Why did Bond let the sniper shoot his target? > With Moneypenny added and a new M plus all of the talk about Bond getting old, did it feel like they rebooted themselves? > If Finnes character had been MIles Messervy would that have been too much of a giveaway? I wondered the same; yes; and definitely yes. > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I liked it. It wasn’t as good as _Casino Royale_, but better than _Quantum of Solace_… Exactly. > [@DSeid](#): > > …Bond is not a nice man. He’s a well-trained, well-groomed assassin with a taste for the finer things in life. He does bad things for a good cause. As M once said, “This country will sometimes need a blunt instrument.” > [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Blow M up at her desk? She’s dead but with reputation relatively intact. IMHO, Silva wanted to utterly ruin M’s reputation first. Thus, the key elements of his plan were (1) prominently attack MI6 headquarters, (2) allow the embarrasing Parliamentary inquiry, with “resignation” waiting in the wings, to proceed, which it likely wouldn’t if M was dead (3) attack MI6’s new hidden headquarters, (4) escape same and evade MI6’s best and brightest in the heart of London, where MI6 would have the strongest police & military backup, and (5) _ **now** _ kill M in the most embarrasing way possible: in front of the Parliamentary committee… > > And as to the people asking why Bond’s property was sold off so quickly? My theory is that M suspected Bond might be playing dead. “It’s about bloody time!” when he reappears. 😛 So liquidating his estate as if he’s dead is the proper thing to do if he is dead – MI6/the Crown/whoever can always hold the proceeds in escrow – and if he isn’t, it’s M’s little passive-aggressive “fuck you!” for playing dead at an inopportune moment. 😉 I completely agree on both points. > [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > This makes the most sense. He did not just want her dead. he wanted her ruined _and he wanted M to know who did it and look him in the face as they died together._ This was not an assassination of the head of MI6, it was a murder/suicide plot from a guy with a mommy complex towards M… Well said. > [@Folacin](#): > > I’m probably just a sap, but I was thinking they were setting up M to retire with Kincaide. > > The flashlight was my main peeve also. I really thought that M was doing it on purpose to lead Silva to her, but then it turned out that she hadn’t kept her pistol. I thought the same! > [@Morbo](#): > > …I just saw it and enjoyed it. One thing I didn’t see mentioned here, and I probably only recognized him b/c I saw **Casino Royale** just before going to it - but one of the poker players from the final table from Casino Royale was at the Macau casino and seemed to recognize Bond while he was beating up the guards. It was the Asian guy with a long gray-haired ponytail. Nice touch. Ooo, good catch! I didn’t notice that. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/194 "2012-11-29T15:51:47Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > It’s kinda hard to be really super secret spy guy when you constantly introduce yourself to the bad guy using your real name. That’s partially why the child in me assumed that James Bond was a name that came with the job and revealing that his birth name was James Bond in this movie kind of tarnished that assumption. That and also the entire premise of the movie is to reveal the aliases (of albeit moles in terrorist cells) but Bond doesn’t have an alias. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/195 "2012-11-29T15:55:22Z")
_Other than what’s already been mentioned, this, for me, was the good stuff:_ Adele’s theme song. The motorcycle chase through Istanbul. Bond shooting his cuffs after he lands in the passenger car on the train. Classic! The actress who played Cherie Blair in _The Queen_, and Mrs. Malfoy in the _Harry Potter_ movies, as the MP grilling M. Seeing the DB5 again - and the gag with the ejector-seat button. The future M being able to handle a gun and rise to the occasion in the Parliamentary hearing room. The reveal of Eve as Moneypenny. _Aaaaaand the not-so-good stuff:_ The drinking contest on the Turkish beach reminded me too much of Marion Ravenwood in the Nepali bar in _Raiders of the Lost Ark_. Bond digs out the bullet fragments by himself. And _of course_ they’re highly distinctive. Javier Bardem just didn’t live up to his billing as the bad guy. He’s not THAT scary, no matter what the Doomed Bond Girl said in the Macau casino. Silva gets into the Parliamentary hearing room 'way too easily, and then leaves unscathed. And a question: Is the word “Skyfall” original to this movie? What does it mean as the name of a Scottish country house? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/196 "2012-11-30T10:10:42Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > That’s partially why the child in me assumed that James Bond was a name that came with the job and revealing that his birth name was James Bond in this movie kind of tarnished that assumption. I’ve heard quite a few people (including my wife) say they were surprised/disappointed to discover James Bond was really his name and not the espionage equivalent of The Dread Pirate Roberts. It’s pretty solidly established in the books - both Fleming’s and those of later authors - that James Bond really is his name. The circumstances surrounding his parents’ deaths are a pretty important element of the latest Bond novel (the one by Jeffrey Deaver). Even within the movies I thought it had been pretty well established his name actually was James Bond. Bonus Bond Trivia: _The World Is Not Enough_ is actually the motto (well, English translation) of the (James) Bond family - it’s not just a clever movie title. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/197 "2012-11-30T10:51:39Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I don’t recall him being shot in the chest, just picked up some shrapnel and maybe a little spall from shots deflected by the cabin of the earth moving equipment. (Until, of course, Eve took her shot.) The bullet in his chest is how they identified the assassin. It was uranium or some ridiculous macguffin. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/198 "2012-11-30T11:09:52Z")
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > The bullet in his chest is how they identified the assassin. It was uranium or some ridiculous macguffin. Bullet fragment. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/199 "2012-11-30T22:19:56Z")
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > The bullet in his chest is how they identified the assassin. It was uranium or some ridiculous macguffin. Depleted uranium, as the U.S. Army uses in armor-piercing shells (but not pistol-fired bullets): [Depleted uranium - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium#Ammunition) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2012, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/200 "2012-12-01T06:24:39Z")
> [@tdelamont](#): > > You should read the books. Bond’s father had a very minor title, and very little beyond a crumbling old family home. Bond was “upper class” in name only and hated school. He was kicked out of at least one school precisely because he had a habit of getting into fights with snotty upperclassmen. So he eventually quit school and joined the Navy. Once in the OO section, he enjoyed the finer things because he realized that every day could literally be his last, not because he was an upper-class snob. That was BTW not Bond. That was actually how Ian Fleming lived life before the end of WW2. I liked it. Better than Solace. Not as good as Casino Royale. But, Ralph Finnes is now in the franchise and the new Moneypenny is actually pretty, so that bodes well for the future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018.md?page=11)