# Skyfall for those who've seen it - open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 27, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018 "2012-10-27T06:14:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/61 "2012-11-12T00:26:54Z")
I thought it was a fun movie, and a good Bond outing - but not the “best Bond film ever.” Not even as good as the recent _Casino Royale_. My biggest peeves have been mentioned - the villian’s overcomplicated plan and the stupidity of using a flashlight on the moors while trying to escape unseen. I did like the new Q and the new M, and Moneypenny, however. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/62 "2012-11-12T01:22:28Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > This is the part I’m complaining about his plan being too far-fetched. As far as I can tell, the hitman being captured isn’t an “in case of” - it was actually part of the villain’s plan to have the hitman followed. (Note that we never find out who he kills - it’s just a setup for Bond to follow him). His whole plan of “knowing someone would capture him” hinges on the events of Bond following him and surviving everything _exactly_ as they actually happened. The hitman being caught was not an in case of - everything that happened after Bond showed up at the Casino was “in case of” (and likely set in motion once the hitman did not check in himself). While we do not know why the hit itself took place - there is zero reason to suspect the hitman planned on getting captured - had Bond not id’d him, they would have had no way to track him down. The ‘most far fetched’ part of the movie is Bond surviving - but I do not believe that Silva had any ‘master plan’ and no convenience of ‘must make sure bond does X Y and Z’ is required - just a realization that Silva planned on what to do IF captured. Truthfully, the biggest contrivance is that Bond didn’t just shoot him while on the island - but thats the fault of damn near every movie. The other biggest ‘far fetched’ notion is relying on Q to plugin the damn laptop to the MI6 network directly. as for Bond allowing the hit to take place - I think he simply needed the timing to get thru all the glass doors - I’m sure he would have preffered the other person not die, but that was not his mission. What I found the oddest about that scene was after the other person was shot - the dark haired girl simply watched Bond from the far window, while the dead person was unceremoniously dragged out (of course, she could have been admiring the fact that someone was trying to catch the killer and he could have been drug out from where he got shot in an effort to get him away from more danger to try and save him - but the scene just ‘looks odd’ in my memory at this point.) ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/63 "2012-11-12T04:01:38Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Truthfully, the biggest contrivance is that Bond didn’t just shoot him while on the island - but thats the fault of damn near every movie. In the last two movies, M gave him hell about leaving a trail of dead bodies when they could have learned something by interrogating them instead. At the end of Quantum, he finally proved that he could leave someone alive to be questioned. I assume this was part of that. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/64 "2012-11-12T04:34:38Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > In the last two movies, M gave him hell about leaving a trail of dead bodies when they could have learned something by interrogating them instead. At the end of Quantum, he finally proved that he could leave someone alive to be questioned. I assume this was part of that. Thats actually, probably, a very good point - could have atleast broke his kneecaps for wasting that scotch. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/65 "2012-11-12T13:35:07Z")
> [@simster](#): > > The hitman being caught was not an in case of - everything that happened after Bond showed up at the Casino was “in case of” (and likely set in motion once the hitman did not check in himself). > > While we do not know why the hit itself took place - there is zero reason to suspect the hitman planned on getting captured - had Bond not id’d him, they would have had no way to track him down. > > The ‘most far fetched’ part of the movie is Bond surviving - but I do not believe that Silva had any ‘master plan’ and no convenience of ‘must make sure bond does X Y and Z’ is required - just a realization that Silva planned on what to do IF captured. > > Truthfully, the biggest contrivance is that Bond didn’t just shoot him while on the island - but thats the fault of damn near every movie. > > The other biggest ‘far fetched’ notion is relying on Q to plugin the damn laptop to the MI6 network directly. > > as for Bond allowing the hit to take place - I think he simply needed the timing to get thru all the glass doors - I’m sure he would have preffered the other person not die, but that was not his mission. > > What I found the oddest about that scene was after the other person was shot - the dark haired girl simply watched Bond from the far window, while the dead person was unceremoniously dragged out (of course, she could have been admiring the fact that someone was trying to catch the killer and he could have been drug out from where he got shot in an effort to get him away from more danger to try and save him - but the scene just ‘looks odd’ in my memory at this point.) I’m afraid I don’t buy this. Silva wanted to be captured because he wanted to look M in the eye one last time - just humiliating her and SIS was not enough. He actually said this at one point. The whole Shanghai hit was a set up to attract Bond (or I suppose some other 00 agent) and get them to Macau (via the casino chip) from where they could be lured to the Island knowing that they would summon the helicopters to take Silva prisoner. Unless I am entirely wrong, the “dark haired girl” who watched Bond from the window was Severine and she didn’t blink an eye because she was part of the plot and knew what had happened. The corpse was hastily dragged away with no questions asked for the same reason - the hit was no surprise (to anyone but the dead guy!). ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/66 "2012-11-12T16:05:26Z")
> [@panamajack](#): > > That applies to other aspects as well. For example, the opening: Having James Bond ‘die’ and then cut to credits is a great callback to the early half of the series. But then he’s just shown shacking up with a girl on a random beach. There’s no explanation. It’s as if they said, "well, audience, we know you’re smart enough to know James Bond didn’t actually die, and he’s perfectly fine. I didn’t have that problem at all… I don’t think we’re in any way meant to think that anything complicated and mysterious happened, that helicopters showed up and fished Bond out of the river due to secret plan A or B or anything. He was shot non-fatally, and fell a long way into water, but was lucky that he didn’t die, and eventually crawled out of the water and was lucky that someone took him to a hospital, or what have you. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/67 "2012-11-12T16:13:56Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > On the other hand, they fail to execute on this realism consistently. Despite all the emphasis on realism regarding Bond himself and MI6, we still have a “crazy supervillain”-style enemy with the usual inexplicable army of well-equipped disposable henchmen, and a military helicopter with machine gun that he has (also inexplicably) managed to smuggle into Scotland after escaping from MI6. > > I just don’t understand why, if they’ve decided that a grittier, more realistic Bond is needed (the right decision IMO), they don’t spend the time to come up with grittier, more realistic enemies. Perhaps the contrast is the thing? Bardem being in the style of the old Bond? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/68 "2012-11-12T17:23:17Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I didn’t have that problem at all… I don’t think we’re in any way meant to think that anything complicated and mysterious happened, that helicopters showed up and fished Bond out of the river due to secret plan A or B or anything. He was shot non-fatally, and fell a long way into water, but was lucky that he didn’t die, and eventually crawled out of the water and was lucky that someone took him to a hospital, or what have you. Agreed - > [@MarcusF](#): > > I’m afraid I don’t buy this. Silva wanted to be captured because he wanted to look M in the eye one last time - just humiliating her and SIS was not enough. He actually said this at one point. The whole Shanghai hit was a set up to attract Bond (or I suppose some other 00 agent) and get them to Macau (via the casino chip) from where they could be lured to the Island knowing that they would summon the helicopters to take Silva prisoner. He did not need to be captured to get to M - that was clear when he blew up her office and took her Computer and files. > [@MarcusF](#): > > Unless I am entirely wrong, the “dark haired girl” who watched Bond from the window was Severine and she didn’t blink an eye because she was part of the plot and knew what had happened. The corpse was hastily dragged away with no questions asked for the same reason - the hit was no surprise (to anyone but the dead guy!). I agree that the hit itself was likely a setup and that the girl watching was likely Severine - I disagree that they planned for the hitman to be killed/captured at that point, but like the bread crumbs Q left that only Silva could follow - Silva left crumbs that only MI6 could follow and someone watching in case it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/69 "2012-11-12T17:45:42Z")
I liked it. It wasn’t as good as _Casino Royale_, but better than _Quantum of Solace_. I liked how they got away from Shaky Cam. You could follow all the action clearly, it was very well shot and framed. The mixture of gritty new school and campy old school more or less worked. Seeing the car from Goldfinger was awesome. The lack of realism didn’t bother me at all, since I took it as a comic book movie. Action thrillers are unrealistic by nature. Even Casino Royale was implausible. In real life “James Bond” would be the code name of a predator drone. I did think it dragged a bit towards the end. It also stole a lot from the Nolan Batman movies. Still, the final house battle was pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/70 "2012-11-12T18:16:32Z")
Did I miss it or did we never actually get to see how Silva escaped his holding cell? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/71 "2012-11-12T18:24:06Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Did I miss it or did we never actually get to see how Silva escaped his holding cell? we did not get to see it - presumably when the ‘grates’ opened in the main room thta was the security protocols being bypassed and opening electronic locks - one of which was Silva’s cell and whatever door in that room led to the tube. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/72 "2012-11-12T19:18:46Z")
Was Bond’s Aston the one he won in Casino Royale? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/73 "2012-11-12T19:33:04Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > Was Bond’s Aston the one he won in Casino Royale? No - it was an original Bond car - complete with ejection seat. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/74 "2012-11-12T19:45:52Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > Was Bond’s Aston the one he won in Casino Royale? It’s the same car he had in Goldfinger. > **[Aston Martin DB5](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin_DB5#James_Bond.27s_DB5)** > > The Aston Martin DB5 is a British grand tourer (GT) produced by Aston Martin and designed by Italian coachbuilder Carrozzeria Touring Superleggera. Originally produced from 1963 to 1965, the DB5 was an evolution of the final series of DB4. The "DB" designation is from the initials of David Brown who built up the company from 1947 onwards. > The DB5 is best-known for its role in the James Bond films. It was first driven by the fictional spy in the film Goldfinger (1964). In 2013, the car feature... If you haven’t seen it, or don’t remember it well, there’s a reference you would have missed. It has an ejector seat, which Bond uses to get rid of a hijacker. It is operated with a button concealed in the gear stick. So, at one point in the drive, Bond and M are bickering, and Bond’s hand hovers meaningfully over the button. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/75 "2012-11-12T20:01:39Z")
I liked it. It was much better than _Quantum of Solace_, but not as good as _Casino Royale_. However, _Royale_ did feel like a bit of a departure from the standard Bond formula as it was more story driven and less dependent on action. _Skyfall_ felt more like an attempted return to form. _Skyfall_ was good but it definitely didn’t feel quite the same. I liked how they seemed to be trying to telegraph that they are going back to the basics for Bond, with the introduction of Q, Moneypenny, and the new M. However, I do agree that Silva’s plot did rely on a lot of incompetence on the part of MI6. Unlike _The Dark Knight’s_ Joker, who gave the feel of a master planner with a plan for everything, Silva’s scheme had a bit of _24’s_ “how the hell did they ever expect this plan to work?” I didn’t like how Bond made the quip about “wasting good scotch” after Severine’s death. I know Bond is all about the banter, but in the face of a (relatively) innocent women’s death, it felt excessively cold and out of character. I loved seeing Naomie Harris as Moneypenny. She was great in _28 Days Later_ but I felt that some of her lines fell flat in _Skyfall_. The idea that she used to be a field agent who was competent but not quite up to par with Bond was an interesting touch, and a nice explanation for the relationship we know Bond ends up developing with her. I’m thankful that _QoS_ wasn’t the end of good Daniel Crag Bond films, as I think he really does look and play the part quite well. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/76 "2012-11-12T20:06:14Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > It’s the same car he had in Goldfinger. > > [Aston Martin DB5 - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin_DB5#James_Bond.27s_DB5) > > If you haven’t seen it, or don’t remember it well, there’s a reference you would have missed. It has an ejector seat, which Bond uses to get rid of a hijacker. It is operated with a button concealed in the gear stick. > > So, at one point in the drive, Bond and M are bickering, and Bond’s hand hovers meaningfully over the button. That was a great moment. “Go ahead, eject me, see if I care.” I love Judi Dench. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/77 "2012-11-12T20:39:28Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I didn’t like how Bond made the quip about “wasting good scotch” after Severine’s death. I know Bond is all about the banter, but in the face of a (relatively) innocent women’s death, it felt excessively cold and out of character. This part was required of Bond - I don’t think that is how he actually felt - but to Silva he had to appear the stronger of the two rats - no weakness. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/78 "2012-11-12T20:45:56Z")
> [@simster](#): > > This part was required of Bond - I don’t think that is how he actually felt - but to Silva he had to appear the stronger of the two rats - no weakness. I hadn’t thought about it that way. Fair enough. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/79 "2012-11-12T23:14:04Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > And his plan doesn’t really make any sense (especially as it goes from “kill M” to “kill himself and M.” Uh, ok. Maybe it’s just me, but I’m not exactly drawn to watching a villain who can be described by the phrase “mommy issues.” That was my problem – I want enough of the cartoon Bond movie that the world (or a good chunk of it) hangs in the balance. At most, 60 spies and M are killed. Meh. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/80 "2012-11-12T23:54:55Z")
While I do like the “grittier” Bond, this movie seemed to lack some of the fun of other Bond movies. I am not looking for Roger Moore era goofiness, but this episode is so dour and dark. I liked the movie, but it could’ve used a bit of lightening up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018.md?page=5)