# Skyfall for those who've seen it - open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 27, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018 "2012-10-27T06:14:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/121 "2012-11-14T20:29:46Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The point is, MI6 certainly would have several different contingency plans, several different places they might go to. How could Silva predict which one they would use? IMHO, the source of your confusion is that “predict” isn’t the right word. 🙂 Silva only **has** to know where he’s being taken just before the helicopters arrive at his island – presumably he’s _incommunicado_ after that until his computer is plugged in at MI6. 😛 But there was plenty of time **after** MI6 moved to its new HQ and **before** that for his henchmen in the UK – the same ones who gave him a police uniform, picked him up in a police vehicle, etc. – to find which alternate HQ was by then, already in use. One simple low-tech method: follow one or more MI6 employees who are definitely headquarters staff as they go to work. I’m sure they can’t be followed to the entrance, but the henchmen don’t need to, only far enough to determine which backup HQ is in use. This Tube station or parking garage, as opposed to that one. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/122 "2012-11-14T20:32:28Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The point is, MI6 certainly would have several different contingency plans, several different places they might go to. How could Silva predict which one they would use? The way it was explained to Bond the tunnels was the primary plan in this event, secondly, Silva had full access to the network and data. It may not have been due to Silva’s prior knowledge, but it was certainly within his ability to figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/123 "2012-11-14T20:36:43Z")
Saw it last night and liked it. However, it is nowhere near as good as Casino Royale, which is the best Bond movie by quite a bit. It is, however, a very good movie and a fun James Bond film. I was surprised by how much “plot” it had, but was happy when it turned out to be a crazy former agent, not anything more complex. I thought Javier Bardem was excellent. The middle was a bit clunky and I do need to see it on DVD before giving any final verdict. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/124 "2012-11-14T20:49:09Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > The part that didn’t make sense to me was the explosion in M’s office. Silva knew M’s schedule and triggered the explosion when she wasn’t there. So he deliberately didn’t kill her in order to set off a sequence of events that would lead to her death. Sure. This makes the most sense. He did not just want her dead. he wanted her ruined _and he wanted M to know who did it and look him in the face as they died together._ This was not an assassination of the head of MI6, it was a murder/suicide plot from a guy with a mommy complex towards M. > [@Colophon](#): > > I have to say that the ending of the film came as a bit of a shock, as M seemed to have forgotten all about being injured when she was talking to Silva at the end. Then Bond turns up and she suddenly pegs out. Was this deliberate, or just bad acting on Dench’s part? (Surely not!) It hink it was M showing her fortitude and refusing to show weakness to Silva. > [@simster](#): > > Hes a former MI 6 agent - he’s very well aware of their contigency plans Not just any MI6 agaent either, he was M’s “pet” agent before Bond. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/125 "2012-11-14T22:34:17Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The point is, MI6 certainly would have several different contingency plans, several different places they might go to. How could Silva predict which one they would use? He didn’t have to. “if your quarry goes to ground, leave no ground for him to go to.” Surely it would be easy enough for him to monitor activity at all the contingency bases he knew of and choose the escape plan for the base that was ultimately chosen. If you know there are only X possible locations, all you have to watch are those X locations. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/126 "2012-11-15T15:35:34Z")
All I know of this flick is what I’ve seen on TV. They always show the bit where Bond comes from somewhere high and lands on his feet at the end of a rr car, straightens up, and casually adjusts his cuffs. They apparently think it’s an impressive scene, but it just looks comically over the top to me, but hey, it’s James Bond! How fall, and from where, did he supposedly fall? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/127 "2012-11-15T16:49:12Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > All I know of this flick is what I’ve seen on TV. They always show the bit where Bond comes from somewhere high and lands on his feet at the end of a rr car, straightens up, and casually adjusts his cuffs. They apparently think it’s an impressive scene, but it just looks comically over the top to me, but hey, it’s James Bond! How fall, and from where, did he supposedly fall? You have to see the scene - there are parts that the commercial does not show - a) he’s been shot at this point b) the entire chase to get tot hat point To answer your direct question - he jumped down from the arm of the backhoe itself. As for his straightening his cuffs, etc - its part of who he is - I liken it to the scene in Star Trek 2, where the dieing Spock straightens his uniform - its just in his nature to never look disheveled. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/128 "2012-11-15T16:52:33Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > On the other hand, they fail to execute on this realism consistently. Despite all the emphasis on realism regarding Bond himself and MI6, we still have a “crazy supervillain”-style enemy with the usual inexplicable army of well-equipped disposable henchmen, and a military helicopter with machine gun that he has (also inexplicably) managed to smuggle into Scotland after escaping from MI6. The villain is definitely over the top, but I didn’t see that his army was inexplicable. He’s an expert hacker, and he mentioned something about toppling governments and banks. It didn’t strike me as impossible he’d have a lot of money, and with that money he could hire a few dozen mercenaries and buy some expensive weapons and other equipment. > [@simster](#): > > I don’t think his plan was to get caught - he’s no Loki - but he had contingency plans in place IF he got caught - as it was a real possibility. This makes sense to me. I was wondering while watching the movie why Silva was captured and how it helped his plan. It didn’t bother me enough to take me out of the movie, but it made me wonder. But it makes sense that it wasn’t part of his plan, but he knew it was possible, and was ready for almost anything. And while he was there he took advantage of the chance to talk to M and show off his gross fake teeth. I’m surprised no one else has mentioned the cyanide capsule thing, because that part freaked me out. > [@simster](#): > > This part was required of Bond - I don’t think that is how he actually felt - but to Silva he had to appear the stronger of the two rats - no weakness. That’s how I saw it too. Bond is still a little fragile after not doing super well on his tests and doesn’t want to show it. He probably didn’t feel a huge amount of grief over the woman’s death, but he did feel some, but just chose not to show it. > [@Colophon](#): > > I have to say that the ending of the film came as a bit of a shock, as M seemed to have forgotten all about being injured when she was talking to Silva at the end. Then Bond turns up and she suddenly pegs out. Was this deliberate, or just bad acting on Dench’s part? (Surely not!) I think it was combination of adrenaline and M not wanting to show weakness to Silva. Silva has been trying to break her, and M doesn’t want to let him see that he’s affected her. Also, adrenaline can keep you going to a certain extent even with injuries, and even more so if you are a character in a movie. Once Silva is dead, she doesn’t have to act anymore, and the adrenaline is starting to wear off. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/129 "2012-11-15T17:23:42Z")
> [@simster](#): > > You have to see the scene - there are parts that the commercial does not show - > > a) he’s been shot at this point > b) the entire chase to get tot hat point > > To answer your direct question - he jumped down from the arm of the backhoe itself. > > As for his straightening his cuffs, etc - its part of who he is - I liken it to the scene in Star Trek 2, where the dieing Spock straightens his uniform - its just in his nature to never look disheveled. What I think is missed in that scene is that that train car has dozens of innocent people on it and they could just as easily been killed…but James Bond. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/130 "2012-11-15T17:36:50Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > What I think is missed in that scene is that that train car has dozens of innocent people on it and they could just as easily been killed…but James Bond. I don’t really think bond would care if he killed some people. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/131 "2012-11-15T17:41:34Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > What I think is missed in that scene is that that train car has dozens of innocent people on it and they could just as easily been killed…but James Bond. Thats true of every location where the good guy is chasing the bad guy - or the bad guy is trying to kill the good guy. Its not exclusive to Bond. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/132 "2012-11-15T17:54:31Z")
> [@simster](#): > > You have to see the scene - there are parts that the commercial does not show - > > a) he’s been shot at this point > b) the entire chase to get tot hat point > > To answer your direct question - he jumped down from the arm of the backhoe itself. > > As for his straightening his cuffs, etc - its part of who he is - I liken it to the scene in Star Trek 2, where the dieing Spock straightens his uniform - its just in his nature to never look disheveled. The truly ridiculous part about that whole sequence is that the backhoe rips the whole back off a passenger car, and half the train gets decoupled, but at no point do any of the passengers pull the emergency brake and stop the train, nor does the driver notice - he just keeps merrily going on his way. (In fact, top be super-geeky, apparently the brakes on a train work such that if the brake line is cut then they come on automatically.) But hey, it’s a chase sequence on top of a moving train - it’s not meant to be realistic. The same goes for the motorbike chase across the rooftops - did anyone else find it jarringly obvious how a [smooth](http://img.eatsleepride.com/content/list/10669.JPG) paved [strip](http://www.iamabiker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Bond-Skyfall-motorcycle-chase-scene.jpg) had been laid along the route the bikes were following? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/133 "2012-11-15T18:01:55Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > There was a reason to kill him - MI6 kills its traitors. At the start of Casino Royale Bond confronts a traitor, an unarmed sitting duck, and executes him. The fact that he didn’t do the same to Silva is a large plot hole. That’s absurd. Honestly, if you think that’s a plot hole, you have utterly misunderstood the film. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/134 "2012-11-15T18:04:50Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > The truly ridiculous part about that whole sequence is that the backhoe rips the whole back off a passenger car, and half the train gets decoupled, but at no point do any of the passengers pull the emergency brake and stop the train, nor does the driver notice - he just keeps merrily going on his way. (In fact, top be super-geeky, apparently the brakes on a train work such that if the brake line is cut then they come on automatically.) > > But hey, it’s a chase sequence on top of a moving train - it’s not meant to be realistic. The same goes for the motorbike chase across the rooftops - did anyone else find it jarringly obvious how a [smooth](http://img.eatsleepride.com/content/list/10669.JPG) paved [strip](http://www.iamabiker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Bond-Skyfall-motorcycle-chase-scene.jpg) had been laid along the route the bikes were following? yeah - I’ll give you that one - but ‘realistic’ chase scenes would be very boring - I think the closest we get to real chases would be the Bourne movie or maybe (and its a stretch) a couple of the ones from that Statham movie (delivery guy in a sedan). I liked how the passengers just pretty much acted like it was another day in the office. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/135 "2012-11-16T05:30:06Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > BTW, let me say I think _Quantum of Solace_ gets a bit of a bad rap. It defintiely had some problems, but it also had some of the best action sequences. The opening action sequence was fantastic. Plus it has some of the best M lines… and my favorite Craig/Bond line of the three films. James Bond: [at a dirty, small motel] What are we doing? Strawberry Fields: We’re teachers on sabbatical. This fits our cover. James Bond: No it doesn’t. I’d rather stay at a morgue. Come on. [they go to a nicer hotel] James Bond: [to the hotel receptionist] Hello. We’re teachers on sabbatical and we’ve just won the lottery. Saw Skyfall today. Like many here, I rank it somewhere between CR and QoS. Now with M, Q and Moneypenny in place… I have to say that things’ve been awfully dull 'round here. I hope we’re going to see some gratuitous sex and violence in the next one! (Yeah, I just went non-Eon NSNA on you all.) ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/136 "2012-11-17T23:02:09Z")
Just saw this and like many, I thought the plot was poorly written. I was Ok through the casino scene but then it got progressively worse. The reviews called it “the best ever!”. Whoever said that hadn’t seen many Bond films. Many of my points have been mentioned, so I’ll throw in some new ones. There were several moments when the Bond theme began blaring, like when they pull the Aston Martin out of the garage. That’s the cue for a big action scene. They spent the night sleeping in the car. The cue kept coming up and wasn’t paid off. It’s mentioned that both his parents were killed and that orphans make the best agents. They didn’t touch on who/what killed them. I felt it was implied that MI6 had done it and it was another of M’s betrayals, but the premise wasn’t followed. The fact that his father was named Andrew ruled out the possibility that Connery could be lured back for a flashback cameo as James Sr. When the first set of bad guys arrives on the Moors and they walk past “the Bond car”. Were you also thinking “there’s machine guns in the front of that thing, I wonder if James has a remote control?” He didn’t, but they telegraphed what should have been a surprise. In the final scene between Silva and M. I knew the knife came into play but I was expecting M to have it. And I was disappointed that she didn’t. I liked Q and Moneypenny, I’m neutral on the new M. I haven’t seen a Bond film in the theater in over twenty years, so I enjoyed the experience despite the flaws. Theaters are cheap here; it’s hard to feel ripped off when it only cost $5 for admission and a medium popcorn. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/137 "2012-11-17T23:52:09Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Then sudden nightfall ought not to be too much of a surprise! At high latitudes, sun approaches the horizon at a shallow angle - so nightfall is rather gradual. ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/138 "2012-11-18T02:40:36Z")
All this talk of plotholes and mistakes, and no one has mentioned Kincade talking about a hunting rifle but handing Bond a shotgun? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/139 "2012-11-18T02:54:34Z")
And cyanide doesn’t rot your bones or teeth out. It kills by blocking oxygen absorption, not by being caustic. ---
**Author:** ![coolbyrne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bc79bd/32.png) [@coolbyrne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coolbyrne)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018/140 "2012-11-18T05:59:04Z")
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > Just saw this and like many, I thought the plot was poorly written. I was Ok through the casino scene but then it got progressively worse. The reviews called it “the best ever!”. Whoever said that hadn’t seen many Bond films. > > Many of my points have been mentioned, so I’ll throw in some new ones. > > There were several moments when the Bond theme began blaring, like when they pull the Aston Martin out of the garage. That’s the cue for a big action scene. They spent the night sleeping in the car. The cue kept coming up and wasn’t paid off. > > It’s mentioned that both his parents were killed and that orphans make the best agents. They didn’t touch on who/what killed them. I felt it was implied that MI6 had done it and it was another of M’s betrayals, but the premise wasn’t followed. The fact that his father was named Andrew ruled out the possibility that Connery could be lured back for a flashback cameo as James Sr. > > When the first set of bad guys arrives on the Moors and they walk past “the Bond car”. Were you also thinking “there’s machine guns in the front of that thing, I wonder if James has a remote control?” He didn’t, but they telegraphed what should have been a surprise. > > In the final scene between Silva and M. I knew the knife came into play but I was expecting M to have it. And I was disappointed that she didn’t. > > I liked Q and Moneypenny, I’m neutral on the new M. I haven’t seen a Bond film in the theater in over twenty years, so I enjoyed the experience despite the flaws. Theaters are cheap here; it’s hard to feel ripped off when it only cost $5 for admission and a medium popcorn. The Bond theme in this instance wasn’t meant to be a cue for action- pulling that Aston Martin out of the garage to the 60’s version of the Bond tune was meant to be a wink and a nod to the history of the car. You mention that those who are reviewing it as the best Bond film ever hasn’t seen many Bond movies- how many Bond books have you read? The knowledge you seek regarding Bond’s parents is well documented in the Fleming novels. Looking for a way to bring back Connery in any capacity really summarizes the problem this franchise is always going to have- there will always be people who will forever want the quips and the invisible cars and the winkwinknudgenudge formula, and there will always be people who roll their eyes at that formula. I walked out of Skyfall thinking, “That was an action movie that just happened to have a guy named James Bond in it.” For many, that’s a bad thing- they want it to be James Bond first, with everything else being secondary. But I actually thought that was a real marvel- a great action flick that carried a great character. For me, they finally found the balance between honouring the building blocks of the past, but also creating its own future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyfall-for-those-whove-seen-it-open-spoilers/639018.md?page=8)