# Skyscrapers on fire, not collapsing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 12, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541 "2010-09-12T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/262 "2010-09-21T23:53:15Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > If I knew who was responsible I wouldn’t have to ask the questions. I do not have to know what the square root of two is, to realize it is NOT Five. The square root of 2 is about 1.4. If you’re paraphrasing Orwell, you want to say 2 + 2 does not equal 5. Square roots are the opposite of squaring, not adding. > [@](#): > > And for the record, I do not think, nor have I ever even suggested, that our government planned or carried out the attacks. Yes, you have suggested the government was involved. You’ve also said you don’t think the government was involved. These statements are fundamentally incoherent and almost everything you have said in support of them is completely wrong. You said Bush didn’t care about Bin Laden, but that implies he knew Bin Laden was not responsible. That implicates him in the conspiracy. You have also made multiple statements that clearly implicate the military: > [@Did the 9-11 Attacks "Work?"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-attacks-work/503088/139): > > _ **I think it’s pretty convenient that they were practicing that very scenario, and were thus unavailable when it actually happened** _ > [@Did the 9-11 Attacks "Work?"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-attacks-work/503088/101): > > Why did the “plane” that hit the Pentagon fly all the way around and conveniently hit the one section closed down for renovation? Renovation to make it stronger against a MISSILE ATTACK? > [@Did the 9-11 Attacks "Work?"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-9-11-attacks-work/503088/143): > > It would make a great deal of sense if you didn’t REALLY want to destroy the Pentagon, but didn’t want the pesky military getting in the way. So clearly you think the people who reinforced the Pentagon, the people who organize military training drills, and the hijackers were on the same side. As was Larry Silverstein, which makes no sense because he has no evident interest in destroying the Pentagon. Not that it matters because this is all crapola. > [@Mozart1220](#): > > I’m going to take a chance here and assume you are Republican as well. I already asked you this: why do you keep wrongly assuming people are Republicans whenever they disagree with your ridiculous ideas about the terrorist attacks? There are some Republicans here, but not a ton, and even among the Republicans there aren’t that many fans of Bush. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/263 "2010-09-21T23:54:32Z")
[QUOTE=Gangster Octopus] Oh yeah, then tell me why the American Flag is moving or there are no stars in the sky? [/QUOTE] Well, you see, it has to do with the light angles from the various light sources and the echos from the Grassy Knoll™ and the alien bodies found at the crash site on a ranch in BumFuck(aar) New Mexico… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/264 "2010-09-21T23:59:55Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Is it time for us to go ahead and take a chance here and assume you are a 15 year old forum troll who is wasting all of our time? If you think **Mozart1220** is trolling, please report his posts. Accusations of trolling belong in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/265 "2010-09-22T00:09:32Z")
To paraphrase the great sage Inigo Montoya: Let me es’plain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up. The government did or did not know about and/or perpetrate 9/11 (or something). The towers clearly fell (or maybe they didn’t) in a fashion contrary to the encyclopedic common sense knowledge of some people (here after refereed simply as The Enlightened or Those In The Know…or, to shorten it, the Truthers). Looking at the footage, it’s clear (again, to TITK™ or The Truthers) that the building could not have fallen due to any known agent other than explosive demolition using magic and untraceable explosives and detonators because there was no fire (or, if there was a fire, it was a small fire, or if there was a big fire it went out rapidly since everyone knows that jet fuel burns quickly and that office buildings have nothing in them to burn unless a factious jet air craft supposedly crashes into them). And if you don’t believe this stuff, or you believe the ‘official story’, clearly you are a Republican and a Bush Apologist (and probably just a bad human being who kicks puppies and pushes baby chicks into ponds full of combat wombats). Ok boys, have fun storming the castle! My name is Mozart1220 (Amadeus Amadeus!), you are a Republican and you ripped my arguments to shreds…prepare to further humiliate me! -XT ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/266 "2010-09-22T00:24:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Cisco](#): > > > > Is it time for us to go ahead and take a chance here and assume you are a 15 year old forum troll who is wasting all of our time? > > If you think **Mozart1220** is trolling, please report his posts. Accusations of trolling belong in the Pit. That was a question at the end of a very relevant point I made in reponse to something he said that was very similarly structured. I don’t think it’s fair to pull it out of context and call it an accusation of trolling. In fact, the whole point was “quit making baseless accusations.” ---
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/267 "2010-09-22T00:41:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Mozart1220](#): > > > > If I knew who was responsible I wouldn’t have to ask the questions. I do not have to know what the square root of two is, to realize it is NOT Five. > > The square root of 2 is about 1.4. If you’re paraphrasing Orwell, you want to say 2 + 2 does not equal 5. Square roots are the opposite of squaring, not adding. > \*\*\*No, actually I made that up on my own, and it has nothing to do with math. It means I don’t have all the right answers to know that the ones I have been given are wrong. \*\*\* > > Yes, you have suggested the government was involved. > > \*\*\*Where did I suggest the government was involved? \*\*\* > > You’ve also said you don’t think the government was involved. These statements are fundamentally incoherent and almost everything you have said in support of them is completely wrong. > > \*\*\*All evidence to the contrary, but go on, you are on a roll. \*\*\* > You said Bush didn’t care about Bin Laden, but that implies he knew Bin Laden was not responsible. > > \*\*\*No, it means he didn’t care if he was. \*\*\* > That implicates him in the conspiracy. > > \*\*\*It means he had no power to do anything about it. \*\*\* > > You have also made multiple statements that clearly implicate the military: > > So clearly you think the people who reinforced the Pentagon, the people who organize military training drills, and the hijackers were on the same side. > > _ **No, it means whoever hit the Pentagon with whatever it was knew where to hit it so as to do the least damage.** _ > > As was Larry Silverstein, which makes no sense because he has no evident interest in destroying the Pentagon. Not that it matters because this is all crapola. > > \*\*\*Deflection my dear sir…deflection. \*\*\* > > > [@Mozart1220](#): > > > > I’m going to take a chance here and assume you are Republican as well. > > I already asked you this: why do you keep wrongly assuming people are Republicans whenever they disagree with your ridiculous ideas about the terrorist attacks? > > _ **If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck…** _ > > There are some Republicans here, but not a ton, and even among the Republicans there aren’t that many fans of Bush. > > _ **Not anymore, no…but at the time…** _ Keep trying. When you cannot prove someone wrong, or explain away his facts, or answer his questions intelligently, discredit. That’s the Republican way. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/268 "2010-09-22T00:46:48Z")
Mozart1220, please respond to post #153, and the question restated, as requested, 100 posts later. ---
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/269 "2010-09-22T00:49:26Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Mozart1220, please respond to post #153, and the question restated, as requested, 100 posts later. How about you just ask whatever question you seem to think I’m avoiding again. Otherwise, Bite me. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/270 "2010-09-22T00:49:56Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > Keep trying. When you cannot prove someone wrong, or explain away his facts, or answer his questions intelligently, discredit. That’s the Republican way. Wait!! No **WAIT** Are you accusing **Marley23** , because of his post which you quoted, of being a Republican? This is just too weird. ---
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/271 "2010-09-22T00:51:05Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > > [@Mozart1220](#): > > > > Keep trying. When you cannot prove someone wrong, or explain away his facts, or answer his questions intelligently, discredit. That’s the Republican way. > > Wait!! No **WAIT** > > Are you accusing **Marley23** , because of his post which you quoted, of being a Republican? This is just too weird. He should stop acting like one. Move on. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/272 "2010-09-22T00:55:57Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > > [@Cisco](#): > > > > Mozart1220, please respond to post #153, and the question restated, as requested, 100 posts later. > > How about you just ask whatever question you seem to think I’m avoiding again. Otherwise, Bite me. For a third time? If you really don’t understand the question, then tell me what it is you don’t understand. As demonstrated a few pages ago, several other people understand it just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/273 "2010-09-22T00:57:31Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > > [@Mozart1220](#): > > > > How about you just ask whatever question you seem to think I’m avoiding again. Otherwise, Bite me. > > For a third time? > > If you really don’t understand the question, then tell me what it is you don’t understand. As demonstrated a few pages ago, several other people understand it just fine. For the last time..repeat the question or move past your obsession. If it invloves things that can “falsify my claims” then answer it for yourself first. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/274 "2010-09-22T01:08:04Z")
How is this tactic of calling everyone a Republican working out for you? Does this represent Democrat thinking, and if so, do you suppose it’s flattering or embarrassing to Democrats to have to feel that somehow they are on your ‘side’? 😛 [QUOTE=Mozart1220] If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck… [/QUOTE] Couldn’t agree more. If it walks like a nutter and quacks like a nutter it must be a duck… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/275 "2010-09-22T01:19:39Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > How is this tactic of calling everyone a Republican working out for you? Does this represent Democrat thinking, and if so, do you suppose it’s flattering or embarrassing to Democrats to have to feel that somehow they are on your ‘side’? 😛 > > [QUOTE=Mozart1220] > If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck… Couldn’t agree more. If it walks like a nutter and quacks like a nutter it must be a duck… -XT [/QUOTE] I understand there are questins certain people don’t want asked, especially if it involves conservatives being wrong. Continue with the “discreditation”. It’s fun to see the tactics. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/276 "2010-09-22T01:22:57Z")
Mozart, how about you give us a blow by blow account of what you think happened? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/277 "2010-09-22T01:26:10Z")
[QUOTE=Mozart1220] I understand there are questins certain people don’t want asked, especially if it involves conservatives being wrong. [/QUOTE] And yet you haven’t asked any that haven’t been promptly, even brutally, answered. Curious, no? Of course, when one puts ones fingers in their ears and the goes ‘I can’t HEAR you, nanananan, you are just a REPUBLICAN!’ then it makes discussion difficult, ehe? > [@](#): > > Continue with the “discreditation”. It’s fun to see the tactics. Nearly as fun as labeling all opponents ‘Republicans’, while avoiding all those embarrassing fact thingies and ‘just asking questions’ or ‘just saying’…well, nothing much. That’s ALWAYS a barrel of monkeys, and it’s so…so…so…predictable. Just alike all the other 9/11 CT Truffers before you. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/278 "2010-09-22T01:27:07Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > > [@Cisco](#): > > > > For a third time? > > > > If you really don’t understand the question, then tell me what it is you don’t understand. As demonstrated a few pages ago, several other people understand it just fine. > > For the last time..repeat the question or move past your obsession. If it invloves things that can “falsify my claims” then answer it for yourself first. It’s been repeated, in the third post on this very page. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/279 "2010-09-22T01:29:41Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > > [@samclem](#): > > > > Wait!! No **WAIT** > > > > Are you accusing **Marley23** , because of his post which you quoted, of being a Republican? This is just too weird. > > He should stop acting like one. Move on. Speaking as a liberal, atheist queer who has been a life-long Democrat, I’m offended that you conflate believing in your woolly-headed nonsense with being on the political left. I reject your conspiracy theories not because I have any investment in defending George Bush, his policies, or neo-conservatism in general, but rather, because the 9/11 conspiracy theories are illogical, impossibly convoluted, comically inept, and are contradicted by objectively verifiable facts at every level. And for God’s sake, will you just answer **Cisco** ’s question? It’s a message board. His original post hasn’t gone anywhere. Just scroll up and read it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/280 "2010-09-22T02:35:39Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > > [@Cisco](#): > > > > Mozart1220, please respond to post #153, and the question restated, as requested, 100 posts later. > > How about you just ask whatever question you seem to think I’m avoiding again. Otherwise, Bite me. You demanded that he re-post the question. He re-posted the question. Now you are pretending that he did not ask the question again, while being inappropriately rude. > [@Mozart1220](#): > > > [@samclem](#): > > > > Wait!! No **WAIT** > > > > Are you accusing **Marley23** , because of his post which you quoted, of being a Republican? This is just too weird. > > He should stop acting like one. Move on. You are now claiming that a poster who has simply sought your (odd) opinion in straightforward language is “acting like a Republican” when the most brief survey of his opinions would indicate that he is not–and you are again doing it rudely. These CT threads do have their amusing moments, but eventually, we always seem to get to the point where the CT adherent begins to stop even pretending to have a point and begins to make wild accusations about other posters, generally in an inappropriate fashion. You have now entered that (predictable, because so often repeated) stage. If you continue in this fashion, you will probably be banned. For now, simply answer the question from post #153 or declare that you will not answer it and stop playing games. In the meantime, dial back your hostility and pay enough attention to the other posters to be able to refrain from trying to insult them by making wildly inaccurate guesses about their political affiliation. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/281 "2010-09-22T02:41:21Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > He should stop acting like one. Move on. If asking logical questions made one a Republican, I’d be happy to be one. In point of fact I’m a registered independent (and I’ve always thought Bush was a moron - never once have I wavered on that). I just have a problem with aggressive ignorance and bogus theories like the stuff you’ve been spouting here. It’s not the Republicans’ fault your Dan Brown story doesn’t make sense and doesn’t fit the facts. That’s just life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541.md?page=15)