# Skyscrapers on fire, not collapsing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 12, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541 "2010-09-12T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/322 "2010-09-24T00:34:08Z")
I too would like to hear what **Mozart1220** thinks actually happened on 9/11/2001, but I note that he steadfastly refuses to do much of anything other than call people ‘Republicans’ if, as I do, they happen to generally accept the 9/11 Commission’s report as factual. Meanwhile, he’s in excellent company, credibility-wise. Apparently [Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/un_un_world_summit_ahmadinejad;_ylt=AvTGVFZSvr1k9aIuTn4icMas0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTN1bzNvYWJqBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwOTI0L3VuX3VuX3dvcmxkX3N1bW1pdF9haG1hZGluZWphZARjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzIEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3Vzd2Fsa3NvdXRvbg--) is a Truther as well. Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/323 "2010-09-24T01:15:15Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Meanwhile, he’s in excellent company, credibility-wise. Apparently [Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/un_un_world_summit_ahmadinejad;_ylt=AvTGVFZSvr1k9aIuTn4icMas0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTN1bzNvYWJqBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwOTI0L3VuX3VuX3dvcmxkX3N1bW1pdF9haG1hZGluZWphZARjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzIEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3Vzd2Fsa3NvdXRvbg--) is a Truther as well. Who knew? To be fair, though, the Iranian president is a full-fledged CTist, denying the Holocaust, as well. (Not sure how he feels about the moon landings or the JFK assasination, but he’s on board with two of the top four.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/324 "2010-09-24T01:28:44Z")
I believe that Mr Amadeus is also on board with the JFK CT from his earlier comments, though I’m not sure what his thoughts are on the moon landings or the Holocaust are. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/325 "2010-09-24T02:36:58Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I believe that Mr Amadeus is also on board with the JFK CT from his earlier comments, though I’m not sure what his thoughts are on the moon landings or the Holocaust are. > > -XT I do not belive Oswald acted alone(impossible). I KNOW we went to the Moon. ( I had family in the buisiness) The Holocost happened. (obviously) I do not believe aliens crashed at Roswell, nor do I think the government trades cow lips to aliens for technology. You can’t disregard all covered up conspiracies on the basis of a few ridiculous ones, though I know many of you find it convenient to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/326 "2010-09-24T02:38:27Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I too would like to hear what **Mozart1220** thinks actually happened on 9/11/2001, but I note that he steadfastly refuses to do much of anything other than call people ‘Republicans’ if, as I do, they happen to generally accept the 9/11 Commission’s report as factual. > > Meanwhile, he’s in excellent company, credibility-wise. Apparently [Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/un_un_world_summit_ahmadinejad;_ylt=AvTGVFZSvr1k9aIuTn4icMas0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTN1bzNvYWJqBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwOTI0L3VuX3VuX3dvcmxkX3N1bW1pdF9haG1hZGluZWphZARjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzIEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3Vzd2Fsa3NvdXRvbg--) is a Truther as well. Who knew? I do not need to have all the answers to know the ones I gt from the government are impossible. Nice try though. And unlke the Iranian president, I do not belive the US government was responsible for 9-11. They just lied about who did and why. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/327 "2010-09-24T02:58:41Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > I do not need to have all the answers to know the ones I gt from the government are impossible. Nice try though. And unlke the Iranian president, I do not belive the US government was responsible for 9-11. They just lied about who did and why. So if Silverman did engineer attacks killing thousands of people whom he bore no grudge against for insurance money (a serious accusation. is he a sociopath?), as you said you suspect, why did the government cover it up? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/328 "2010-09-24T03:02:16Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > I do not belive Oswald acted alone(impossible). I KNOW we went to the Moon. ( I had family in the buisiness) The Holocost happened. (obviously) > > I do not believe aliens crashed at Roswell, nor do I think the government trades cow lips to aliens for technology. > > You can’t disregard all covered up conspiracies on the basis of a few ridiculous ones, though I know many of you find it convenient to do so. What makes your conspiracy theory any less ridiculous than Holocaust denial or the Moon Hoaxers? You’ve got all the same earmarks: disregard for scientific explanations, insistence that thousands of people be involved in the conspiracy without a single one of them ever breaking silence, the assumption that the vast majority of people who are experts in their fields with direct access to primary evidence are either to corrupt or too stupid to figure out what you deduct from watching grainy YouTube videos, an absolute and total lack of supporting evidence for your claims. The only objective difference between the claims you believe, and the claims you disbelieve, is which ones fit into your preconceived notions of how the world works: The Nazis were far right, so they must be bad guys, so the Holocaust must have happened. Your family worked on the Apollo projects, and you trust your family, so the moon landing must have happened. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/329 "2010-09-24T03:06:45Z")
Wait, what’s this about Oswald not acting alone? **Do** go on… ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/330 "2010-09-24T03:13:50Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > I do not need to have all the answers to know the ones I gt from the government are impossible. All? Actually, to have any credibility at all, you had better come up with at least one or two plausible answers that counter the facts in the 9/11 Commission’s report. You haven’t even done that. Which are the impossible bits again, and what is your personal expertise that allows you to pronounce them impossible? Since you have already demonstrated that you don’t seem to understand the difference between cellular phones and airphones, I really have no choice but to question any further assertions you make. > [@](#): > > And unlke the Iranian president, I do not belive the US government was responsible for 9-11. They just lied about who did and why. Then you must have at least some germ of an idea as to who did it and why. Let’s hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/331 "2010-09-24T03:40:38Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I too would like to hear what **Mozart1220** thinks actually happened on 9/11/2001, but I note that he steadfastly refuses to do much of anything other than call people ‘Republicans’ if, as I do, they happen to generally accept the 9/11 Commission’s report as factual. > > [Y]ou must have at least some germ of an idea as to who did it and why. Let’s hear it. Actually, to his credit, **Mozart1220** has gone farther down this road than the overwhelmingly majority ever have gone or will go. He thinks Silverstein did it. Of course, the train of thought kind of drifts off from there . . . ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/332 "2010-09-24T03:42:11Z")
Hey **Mozart** , any interest in responding to post #302? I can’t help but notice you’ve posted a few times since then. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/333 "2010-09-24T07:13:23Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > To be fair, though, the Iranian president is a full-fledged CTist, denying the Holocaust, as well. (Not sure how he feels about the moon landings or the JFK assasination, but he’s on board with two of the top four.) Hey, this guy also claims to believe that gay people do not exist! When he said that to an audience at Columbia University, they burst into laughter. Possibly they thought he was making some kind of a joke, but then he repeated it. Seems like you wouldn’t have to go far to falsify that idea – just walk about 6 blocks down to Greenwich Village! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/334 "2010-09-24T07:18:01Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > > [@tomndebb](#): > > > > To be fair, though, the Iranian president is a full-fledged CTist, denying the Holocaust, as well. (Not sure how he feels about the moon landings or the JFK assasination, but he’s on board with two of the top four.) > > Hey, this guy also claims to believe that gay people do not exist! When he said that to an audience at Columbia University, they burst into laughter. Possibly they thought he was making some kind of a joke, but then he repeated it. > > Seems like you wouldn’t have to go far to falsify that idea – just walk about 6 blocks down to Greenwich Village! They don’t exist if you kill them. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/335 "2010-09-24T13:30:43Z")
If I remember correctly, [del]Amadenijad[/del] the Iranian president said that they don’t have any gay people _in Iran_. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/336 "2010-09-24T14:22:48Z")
[QUOTE=Mozart1220] I do not belive Oswald acted alone(impossible) [/QUOTE] In the immortal words of Inigo Montoya, I dinna thin’ that word means what you thin’ it means, kimo sabe. Here’s the thing…there have been many, MANY experts who have looked at this subject (JFK assassination) from every angle, and you have to realize that most of them don’t believe it would be ‘impossible’ for Oswald to have pulled off this assassination alone…quiet the opposite. All of the data points to the fact that, indeed, this is exactly what happened. > [@](#): > > I KNOW we went to the Moon. ( I had family in the buisiness) The Holocost happened. (obviously) Well that’s good. Thing is, just because you are rational about some doesn’t give you a pass to be irrational on the others. They are all basically the same. The rationale used to believe in the CT stems from the same lack of information, lack of knowledge and militant unwillingness to listen or learn. > [@](#): > > You can’t disregard all covered up conspiracies on the basis of a few ridiculous ones, though I know many of you find it convenient to do so. Again, you don’t seem to know what that word means. Why would it be ‘convenient’ for anyone here to look at ANY of these ridiculous CTs with a skeptical eye? Do you think we are all in on it? That we know, in our secret hearts, that there was a conspiracy to attack the US on 9/11 (aside from the ACTUAL conspiracy perpetrated by AQ), and that we are giving the government a pass on it? Why? Because we all love Bush?? Bush was probably one of the most hated presidents of all time on this board…even the ‘conservatives’, such as they are, disliked Bush, and very few of them defended him directly. Argued with the large liberal membership (many of who you have called ‘Republicans’ in this very thread, ironically enough) on specific ISSUES…but most of them disliked Bush nearly as much as anyone. The thing you fail to grasp is that the 9/11 CT (as well as the JFK one) run along the same lines of thought that the moon hoax and Holocaust hoax CTs do. You disbelieve those and the Roswell incident, yet you fail to use the same critical skills on the other two. A rational person applying the same levels of skepticism to all of these CTs is going to rapidly conclude that it’s the CT that’s ‘impossible’ (personally, I’d go with highly improbable), because it doesn’t fit the facts or the data. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/337 "2010-09-24T16:07:25Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > I do not need to have all the answers to know the ones I gt from the government are impossible. Can you give us a few specific examples from the “official” explanation of the WTC collapses that you think are impossible and **most importantly why you think they are impossible?** On what actual facts do you base your claims? If you are making judgements or presenting opinions what knowledge or experience do you have in those areas that makes your opinion a credible one? ---
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/338 "2010-09-24T22:21:57Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > > [@Mozart1220](#): > > > > I do not need to have all the answers to know the ones I gt from the government are impossible. > > Can you give us a few specific examples from the “official” explanation of the WTC collapses that you think are impossible and **most importantly why you think they are impossible?** On what actual facts do you base your claims? If you are making judgements or presenting opinions what knowledge or experience do you have in those areas that makes your opinion a credible one? I think I mentioned the odds of even one skyscraper falling straight down into it’s own foorprint. We had THREE, and one wasn’t even hit by a plane. I think the “official” explaination for building 7 was “overwheight air conditioning units on the roof” Please… ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/339 "2010-09-24T22:35:15Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > I think the “official” explaination for building 7 was “overwheight air conditioning units on the roof” Please provide a cite for that “official” version, as it doesn’t seem to match [this entry:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center) > [@](#): > > On September 11, 2001, 7 WTC was damaged by debris when the nearby North Tower of the WTC collapsed. The debris also ignited fires, which continued to burn throughout the afternoon on lower floors of the building. The building’s internal fire suppression system lacked water pressure to fight the fires, and the building collapsed completely at 5:21:10 p.m. The collapse began when a critical column on the 13th floor buckled and triggered structural failure throughout, which was first visible from the exterior with the crumbling of the east mechanical penthouse at 5:20:33 p.m. [Here’s my cite, from the official FEMA version.](http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/340 "2010-09-24T22:38:34Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > > [@Valgard](#): > > > > Can you give us a few specific examples from the “official” explanation of the WTC collapses that you think are impossible and **most importantly why you think they are impossible?** On what actual facts do you base your claims? If you are making judgements or presenting opinions what knowledge or experience do you have in those areas that makes your opinion a credible one? > > I think I mentioned the odds of even one skyscraper falling straight down into it’s own foorprint. We had THREE, and one wasn’t even hit by a plane. > > I think the “official” explaination for building 7 was “overwheight air conditioning units on the roof” > > Please… Skyscrapers that fall into their own footprint don’t scatter debris outside that footprint, right? (I mean, assuming words have _meaning_ and all.) So I think we can agree that any time neighboring buildings are damaged by shrapnel from a falling building, it’s proven that it didn’t fall into its own footprint. Which three buildings fell into their own footprint, again? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/341 "2010-09-24T23:03:12Z")
Well…maybe it was a BIGfoot print? -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541.md?page=18)