# Skyscrapers on fire, not collapsing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 12, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541 "2010-09-12T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/482 "2010-09-28T00:25:11Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > **Poster** > What color is the sun? > > **Cisco** > Yellow. > > **Poster** > What color is the sun? > > **Cisco** > Check post 2. > > **Poster** > What color is the sun? > > **Cisco** > Check post 2. > > **Poster** > What color is the sun? > > **Cisco** > Check post 2. > > **Poster** > What color is the sun? > > **Cisco** > Check post 2. > > **Poster** > What color is the sun? > > **Cisco** > Check post 2. > > **Poster** > What color is the sun? > > **Cisco** > Check post 2. > > **Poster** > What color is the sun? > > **Cisco** > Check post 2. > > **Poster** > What color is the sun? > > **Cisco** > Check post 2. > > **Poster** > See? No one can tell me what color the sun is, so I am obviously right when I say it is purple. > > This is somehow _better_? At least my way I can have the enjoyment of riffing off the recurrent idiocy. Yeah. It is better, because if everybody did this, the truther wouldn’t constantly move on to the next point, only to circle back and trot out the same nonsense again a few pages later, when they can act like it wasn’t already addressed. > [@begbert2](#): > > Plus, everything I say actually makes sense even to readers uninterested in doing research to read an otherwise-uninteresting post. Why don’t you be a little more specific about what you’re referring to here. > [@Miller](#): > > Or my first one, for that matter. You can disagree if you want, Miller, that’s fine, but don’t act like I didn’t provide a valid counter-argument. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/483 "2010-09-28T00:32:18Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Why not forgo planes & demolition charges and park some truck bombs in the garage again? Because after the first try at this, they came up with additional security steps designed to prevent such an attempt again. Of course, if you believe it was ‘the government’ or the building owner planting explosives, then they could probably bypass these security features. Just tell the guards to let these trucks full of explosives in, and park them right next to core support columns – oh, and keep quiet about it, and stay at your posts here right underneath thousands of tons of steel. Right. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/484 "2010-09-28T00:39:17Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > [Yeah. It is better, because if everybody did this, the truther wouldn’t constantly move on to the next point, only to circle back and trot out the same nonsense again a few pages later, when they can act like it wasn’t already addressed. And just to expand on this a little bit: If pretty much every conception and pet theory that these guys have is blatantly, demonstrably wrong (and I think 99.9% of us agree that they are), then why not let’s pick one and have an actual debate about it? This forum is Great _Debates_. What’s going on here looks more like Mozart dancing around in a China Shop, throwing things off the shelves, and all of us running behind him trying to clean up as fast as possible, while he ignores us. Interested in getting into a deep, specific debate about any one of these topics, **Mozart1220**? You pick. Pick the one you’re most sure about, and you know the most about. Your strongest area. Let’s talk. And **Miller** , you know what, buddy? If I seem a little exasperated, and I seem like I’m fed up with the same bullshit tactics, and I’m trying new ways of stemming them, and that includes repeating myself (perhaps ad nauseam to some), it’s because I’m pretty sure I’ve wasted a lot more time trying to debate these fools than the vast majority of posters here. I’ve had it out with them for over 5 years now, on at least half a dozen forums, plus Youtube, Facebook, Myspace, comments pages on news stories among other sites, and - worst of all - real life. I’m sick of repeating how a building is wired, or how it falls, or what kind of hole it makes in a reinforced wall . . . they **know** this stuff. If they decide they want to debate, AWESOME. Let’s debate. I am 100% confident that I, along with millions of other laymen, could and would crush them. But they don’t want to debate, they want to play games. That’s what I’m sick of. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/485 "2010-09-28T00:59:11Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > And **Miller** , you know what, buddy? If I seem a little exasperated, and I seem like I’m fed up with the same bullshit tactics, and I’m trying new ways of stemming them, and that includes repeating myself (perhaps ad nauseam to some), it’s because I’m pretty sure I’ve wasted a lot more time trying to debate these fools than the vast majority of posters here. I’ve had it out with them for over 5 years now, on at least half a dozen forums, plus Youtube, Facebook, Myspace, comments pages on news stories among other sites, and - worst of all - real life. I’m sick of repeating how a building is wired, or how it falls, or what kind of hole it makes in a reinforced wall . . . they **know** this stuff. If they decide they want to debate, AWESOME. Let’s debate. I am 100% confident that I, along with millions of other laymen, could and would crush them. But they don’t want to debate, they want to play games. That’s what I’m sick of. Well, Jesus, go take a nap or something. It’s not like posting about this crap is your job. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/486 "2010-09-28T01:12:10Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Well, Jesus, go take a nap or something. It’s not like posting about this crap is your job. [/QUOTE] With everyone putting in their two cents (and cheap at double the price!), I’d say the SD could well afford to take a few folks on as temps at least… (I’m off to take a nap…what an excellent idea!) -XT ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/487 "2010-09-28T01:17:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, Jesus, go take a nap or something. It’s not like posting about this crap is your job. Oh whatever, dude. Your bitchy little complaint sucked in the first place; I was just trying to explain myself and show a little concession, but you obviously just want to be a jerk about [whatever the hell you’re whining about.] And what is it, again, that you’re whining about? The only way you can form an argument in real life is by regurgitating things you read here while watching people argue in circles? Thumbs up, bro. You’re cool. I better go take a nap because I’m starting to think this crap is my job, or something. :rolleyes: Tell ya what, if you believe so strongly in dancing around in circles with these guys, do your thing. Go for it. Have fun. And I’ll do my thing. Great concept, huh? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/488 "2010-09-28T01:25:56Z")
_Quavering voice_ Can’t…can’t we all jus’ get along?? No, I’m kidding…of course we can’t. Seems a rather pointless side discussion to me, considering it has little to do with the OP, but I suppose really everything that needed to be said about why skyscrapers on fire can (and have) collapsed, so why not? _Even more quavery voice_ I did not have sex with that wombat… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/489 "2010-09-28T01:27:57Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Seems a rather pointless side discussion to me Well, I didn’t start it, I’m just practicing what I preach by responding to posts that are directed at me :D. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/490 "2010-09-28T01:28:57Z")
_In an accusing voice_ Did YOU have sex with that wombat??? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/491 "2010-09-28T01:45:00Z")
Now use some common sense here: if wombats are green (which they clearly are), and my penis, in all its majestic glory, is awesome, how could I possibly give Boris Yeltsin the codes to launch the new season of Desperate Housewives? Learn some goddamn physics. You probably believe the Warren Commission, too :rolleyes:. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/492 "2010-09-28T01:49:28Z")
I’m on the side of “lurkers are reading this and are becoming informed better because of it.” I have personal knowledge of this being true. I’ve even talked to a former mod at a dopefest where he allowed as how his (conservative) preconceptions were wrong and he was enlightened by threads on here. I think most posters have little appreciation of how many lurkers there are here. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/493 "2010-09-28T01:50:29Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Oh whatever, dude. Your bitchy little complaint sucked in the first place; I was just trying to explain myself and show a little concession, but you obviously just want to be a jerk about [whatever the hell you’re whining about.] And what is it, again, that you’re whining about? The only way you can form an argument in real life is by regurgitating things you read here while watching people argue in circles? Thumbs up, bro. You’re cool. I better go take a nap because I’m starting to think this crap is my job, or something. :rolleyes: _My_ complaint? What thread have you been reading? ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/494 "2010-09-28T02:04:33Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > Look at a controlled demolition, and look at buildings 1,2,&7. > > Wow. Also _listen_ to a few [controlled demolitions](http://weburbanist.com/2008/03/05/16-sweet-and-scary-building-demolitions-in-action/) and compare them to [building 7’s collapse](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A). Wow! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/495 "2010-09-28T02:21:38Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > I’m on the side of “lurkers are reading this and are becoming informed better because of it.” I have personal knowledge of this being true. I’ve even talked to a former mod at a dopefest where he allowed as how his (conservative) preconceptions were wrong and he was enlightened by threads on here. I think most posters have little appreciation of how many lurkers there are here. On most other topics, yes, I’m fully with you. On page (whatever the hell page we’re on) of a thread about the j00 Larry Silverstein esploding his buildings for fun and profit? No. > [@Miller](#): > > _My_ complaint? > > What thread have you been reading? You’re seriously going to sit there and say you didn’t start this whole sidetrack? Take a nap, Miller. You need a nap. It’s nappy time. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/496 "2010-09-28T02:27:10Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > NM…I think I’m letting emotion take me to a bad place in this thread, and I see the Mods are keeping a close eye so… True. So I expect to see no more of this: > [@xtisme](#): > > getting this information through the meter of so of bone you call a skull). = = = **Everyone** : dial it back. There is really no need for the rancor, particularly when simply discussing approaches to arguing. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/497 "2010-09-28T02:32:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But, yeah, it’s an inexact analogy, and trying to perform it at any reasonable scale is going to backfire and conform to the Truther’s expectations, just like **Mozarts** Lincoln Logs or **psikey** ’s toiler paper tubes. [This is a rather good display](http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=NBbz2eIoVDQ&feature=related) of how a structure like the WTC would collapse, but instead of steel girders it’s wood sticks. ---
**Author:** ![pikey\_pete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pikey\_pete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pikey_pete)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/498 "2010-09-28T02:46:48Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > > [@pikey\_pete](#): > > > > i just want to make one point: No one had ever run an airliner into a skyscraper before. All the theory in the world is just that, theory. Until you have an actual example of what happens when you smack a jet liner full throttle into a skyscraper, you just cant be 100% sure of what is going to happen. That being said, WTC 1 & 2 behaved just like engineering, physics ad material sciences predicted they would. > > Yup, just like the magic bullet. Ah…the Warren Commission trained you well. magic bullet…you just made the baby Jesus cry. No, a good solid college education, and coming from a family of engineers trained me well. Also, not having an irrational need to see bogeymen everywhere helps a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/499 "2010-09-28T02:52:57Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > _My_ complaint? > > > > What thread have you been reading? > > You’re seriously going to sit there and say you didn’t start this whole sidetrack? I would dispute that, although not in this thread. If you’d like to continue in a different forum, you of course know where to find me. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/500 "2010-09-28T03:03:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@Cisco](#): > > > > You’re seriously going to sit there and say you didn’t start this whole sidetrack? > > I would dispute that, although not in this thread. If you’d like to continue in a different forum, you of course know where to find me. Dude, _you’re_ the one prodding _me_. You started in post #454. I tried to be friendly and shrug it off in #483, and you’ve kept right on until the present. You take it to another forum if it means that much to you. You’re clearly the one with the problem . Edit: And just by saying “I would dispute that, but not in this thread,” you’re disputing it. Right after Tom said to knock it off. You’re a mod. Show some goddamn composure. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541/501 "2010-09-28T03:10:08Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > [This is a rather good display](http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=NBbz2eIoVDQ&feature=related) of how a structure like the WTC would collapse, but instead of steel girders it’s wood sticks. No, no, no. I refuse to believe that that tower was brought down with something as small as a little ball out of a slingshot. I mean, the mass of all that wood can’t possibly be brought down with something insignificant like that. In fact, before I believe this tower fell down, I’m going to need to know the exact weight of each of those wooden sticks, how many of them there were, and what the total weight of that structure was above the impact zone before I’ll believe that it actually fell down. What you have there is clever hoax footage of a CG wooden tower, and all those “students” there who “witnessed” the event are stooges planted by the illuminati to convince the public that such a collapse actually happened. ETA: Furthermore, this dude behind my house who gets real high on PCP and plays Jenga for days says that it couldn’t happen like that! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/skyscrapers-on-fire-not-collapsing/553541.md?page=26)