# Slate article - Dems are still pooping the bed when it comes to dealing with the white working class **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 5, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208 "2017-06-05T18:40:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/1 "2017-06-05T18:40:31Z")
Interesting Slate interview here. The amusing thing is that the interviewer even knowing what the author’s thesis is can barely restrain himself from doing the very name calling the author is talking about that alienates the white working class and disrupts communication. [“I’m Hearing You’re Really Angry” - Advice on how to talk to the white working class without insulting them.](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/interrogation/2017/06/advice_on_how_to_talk_to_the_white_working_class.html) > [@](#): > > In a new book, White Working Class: Overcoming Class Cluelessness in America, Joan C. Williams argues that much of the analysis of this class has been misguided and condescending. So too is the general cultural attitude toward the white working class from society’s more fortunate members. The result, Williams says, is a white working class increasingly isolated from the Democratic Party, with dangerous consequences for our politics This was also amusing. > [@](#): > > I watched a lot of campaign speeches last year, and I can tell you the single biggest topic of conversation in Trump campaign rallies was Donald Trump. And if you tallied up the time that Hillary Clinton spent talking about jobs for the American people versus Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton spent way more time. And if you look at their websites Hillary Clinton has more plans, or had, for Americans without college degrees than Donald Trump does, and the more sensible plans, at least by my analysis and I think your analysis. Don’t “average people” have some responsibility to learn this. > > No I think that’s completely unrealistic. > > I agree it’s unrealistic, but I am not sure whose fault that is. > > I am. I think the Democrats are—I’m damn sure they are at fault for that. The reason that Trump won was about 80,000 voters in Rust Belt states. Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, and others were begging that Hillary Clinton campaign in those Rust Belt states and talk to those people about jobs and about other concerns that blue-collar Americans feel very, very strongly about, and they were told no. And they were told to adhere to a script of Donald Trump is unqualified, and Hillary Clinton is super qualified and wouldn’t it be awesome, and a progressive gesture to vote for a woman for president. Let’s break the glass ceiling. That is an incredibly well-designed message to alienate these voters. And if you are interested I can explain why. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/2 "2017-06-05T18:50:14Z")
Is that what passes for professional writing nowadays? If it’s so easy to write for major periodicals, maybe I’m in the wrong line of work. Like, take this: > [@](#): > > And if you tallied up the time that Hillary Clinton spent talking about jobs for the American people versus Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton spent way more time. Does that mean that she spent way more time talking about jobs than she did talking about Trump, or the reverse? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/3 "2017-06-05T19:08:05Z")
> [@](#): > > And they were told to adhere to a script of Donald Trump is unqualified, and Hillary Clinton is super qualified and wouldn’t it be awesome, and a progressive gesture to vote for a woman for president. Let’s break the glass ceiling. I don’t recall that being part of the campaign of 2016. Not from Clinton’s camp, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/4 "2017-06-05T20:04:35Z")
I haven’t read her book but I was really impressed with an HBR article that Williams wrote which was along similar lines. > [@](#): > > Donald Trump has a long line of blue-collar–trades people, who he has stiffed and not paid. Or paid pennies on the dollar. One of those people should have been at every campaign rally possible. Yes! I made a similar point after the election.Hillary did actually use this line of attack effectively in the first debate but it was largely dropped afterwards. > [@](#): > > Do the thousands of people that you have stiffed over the course of your business not deserve some kind of apology from someone who has taken their labor, taken the goods that they produced, and then refused to pay them? > > I can only say that I’m certainly relieved that my late father never did business with you. He provided a good middle-class life for us, but the people he worked for, he expected the bargain to be kept on both sides. I honestly believe that if they had used this as the primary line of attack and hammered Trump on this relentlessly in the final weeks, Hillary would be President. Hillary should have also talked a lot more about her father. He was the kind of self-made small businessman who many working class whites respect and aspire to become as compared to the educated professionals who dominate the Democratic party. He not only provided a useful contrast with Trump as in that quote but also would have helped Hillary make an emotional connection with working-class voters particularly men. Ultimately her campaign was stupid and arrogant enough to believe that they didn’t need these voters and they could win through the “emerging Democratic majority” of minorities and professionals. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/5 "2017-06-05T20:09:20Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t recall that being part of the campaign of 2016. Not from Clinton’s camp, anyway. I agree. I heard the Republicans saying the Democrats were saying this a lot more than I ever heard the Democrats saying it. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/6 "2017-06-05T20:09:22Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t recall that being part of the campaign of 2016. Not from Clinton’s camp, anyway. I think the point was not that was the actual explicit playbook strategy but it was the defacto reality of what the white working class heard in the absence for specific messages targeting their concerns. And quite frankly as a progressive voter but not a big Hillary fan the quote below _is_ an accurate synopsis of the generalized message I heard across the spectrum in liberal media discussions of the election. Whether explicit or not that _was_ the campaign’s primary message. If you say “Well I never heard that!” it makes the author’s point. Liberal’s were not listening and were not interested in a real and respectful conversation with the white working class. > [@](#): > > Donald Trump is unqualified, and Hillary Clinton is super qualified and wouldn’t it be awesome, and a progressive gesture to vote for a woman for president. Let’s break the glass ceiling. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/7 "2017-06-05T20:13:04Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Ultimately her campaign was stupid and arrogant enough to believe that they didn’t need these voters and they could win through the “emerging Democratic majority” of minorities and professionals. No, Clinton wasn’t willing to tell white men that they deserved more than everyone else. Trump was. A lot of white men decided they liked being told they were special and voted for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/8 "2017-06-05T20:16:13Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I think the point was not that was the actual explicit playbook strategy but it was the defacto reality of what the white working class heard in the absence for specific messages targeting their concerns. > > And quite frankly as a progressive voter but not a big Hillary fan the quote below _is_ an accurate synopsis of the generalized message I heard across the spectrum in liberal media discussions of the election. Whether explicit or not that _was_ the campaign’s primary message. If you say “Well I never heard that!” it makes the author’s point. Liberal’s were not listening and were not interested in a real and respectful conversation with the white working class. I still disagree. If that’s the message the white working class was hearing it’s because they were listening to what conservatives were telling them the liberals were saying. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/9 "2017-06-05T20:21:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, Clinton wasn’t willing to tell white men that they deserved more than everyone else. Trump was. A lot of white men decided they liked being told they were special and voted for Trump. White ladies too apparently as 53% voted for Trump. Seriously though it’s arrogant nonsense like this that cost us the election. The white working class is thoroughly disrespected and despised by white liberals and progressives and somehow we think they are too stupid to pick up the clues on this. They’re not and if we do not become more attentive to their concerns losses will continue. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/10 "2017-06-05T20:25:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, Clinton wasn’t willing to tell white men that they deserved more than everyone else. Trump was. A lot of white men decided they liked being told they were special and voted for Trump. What’s the closest quote from Trump during the campaign to “white men, you deserve more than everyone else”? I can’t recall anything even remotely resembling that sentiment passing Trump’s lips, but I’m wondering if I’m mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/11 "2017-06-05T20:51:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Is that what passes for professional writing nowadays? If it’s so easy to write for major periodicals, maybe I’m in the wrong line of work. Like, take this: > Does that mean that she spent way more time talking about jobs than she did talking about Trump, or the reverse? I’m rather certain, especially given the next sentence, that they meant Hillary talked more about jobs than Trump did. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/12 "2017-06-05T21:07:23Z")
> [@astro](#): > > And quite frankly as a progressive voter but not a big Hillary fan the quote below _is_ an accurate synopsis of the generalized message I heard across the spectrum in liberal media discussions of the election. Whether explicit or not that _was_ the campaign’s primary message. I definitely heard the “Vote for her because she is a woman message”, and I’m not exactly a Fox News viewer. One thing that I find really strange in discussions on these boards is that a lot of pro-Hillary supporters don’t seem to have listened to what the left wing said during the election at all, and tend to willfully ignore a lot of what people actually said during the election times. But there are people that hear the shrill, loud crowd that calls people ‘sexist’ for considering not voting for Hillary, and pretending that the loud, shrill crowd doesn’t exist isn’t doing the Democrats much good in elections. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/13 "2017-06-05T21:26:59Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t recall that being part of the campaign of 2016. Not from Clinton’s camp, anyway. You don’t recall [this?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRimyfmz0MA) ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/14 "2017-06-05T21:31:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What’s the closest quote from Trump during the campaign to “white men, you deserve more than everyone else”? I can’t recall anything even remotely resembling that sentiment passing Trump’s lips, but I’m wondering if I’m mistaken. “Make America great again.” I believe he said it more than once. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/15 "2017-06-05T21:33:01Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t recall that being part of the campaign of 2016. Not from Clinton’s camp, anyway. Huh. Why do you think she chose “I’m With Her” as her motto, then? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/16 "2017-06-05T21:35:38Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > “Make America great again.” I believe he said it more than once. Your mind translated “make America great again” into “white men, you deserve more than everyone else”? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/17 "2017-06-05T21:37:15Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t recall that being part of the campaign of 2016. Not from Clinton’s camp, anyway. [CNN recalls](http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/26/politics/hillary-clinton-election-night-javits-center-irpt/) > [@](#): > > Hillary Clinton has spoken about breaking through the glass ceiling all campaign long, so it’s no wonder why she chose a glass convention center for her election night party. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/18 "2017-06-05T21:37:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your mind translated “make America great again” into “white men, you deserve more than everyone else”? Nope. But that’s what it meant in the minds of more than a few Trump voters. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/19 "2017-06-05T21:41:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > …I can’t recall anything even remotely resembling that sentiment passing Trump’s lips, but I’m wondering if I’m mistaken. You weren’t listening either? Can’t say as I blame you. Got as far as fifteen-twenty minutes, then the demands of mental hygiene took effect. Had to break off for a cuppa chamomile tea, couple tokes and some Twain. I recall his deft diplomatic engagement with the President of Mexico with wonder and awe. And his admiration and outreach to communities of color, and the frank and open discussion of judicial prejudice among Hispanic federal judges…things like this just add to the lustre of his egalitarian humanism! His deep respect for women is a matter of public record, we need not remind. Maybe we just got the idea that he only likes white men because he doesn’t seem to like anybody else? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208/20 "2017-06-05T21:43:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, Clinton wasn’t willing to tell white men that they deserved more than everyone else. Trump was. A lot of white men decided they liked being told they were special and voted for Trump. To be fair, he told a lot of Muslims that they were “special”, too. But hey, this thread is about Hillary. Isn’t if funny how such threads tend to veer off on discussions about Trump. Which is symptomatic of the problem, ironically enough. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slate-article-dems-are-still-pooping-the-bed-when-it-comes-to-dealing-with-the-white-working-class/788208.md?page=2)