Well … to some degree it is a matter of distinctions, and while Crafter Man’s bright line on cats as tools/cats as companions may offend some people it’s one we all have to draw somewhere. Rights for humans only exist reciprocally to the extent humans are willing to grant them to each other, and rights for animals only exist unilaterally to the extent humans are willing to grant them to animals. If you want to make an “incontinent grandad = non litter box using cat” case for cats being allocated the same degree of tolerance and respect as humans, you’re fully entitled to do so, but because others do not does not make them immoral or uncaring.
Let’s put it this way: I wouldn’t use it as the sole criteria for labeling someone immoral or uncaring, but it wouldn’t help their case in any way, now would it?
I still think my friend’s theory holds true (which you didn’t refute in any way). So at the very least, someone like that is guilty of taunting other people who are vulnerable (vulnerable in that they care about the animal in question).
Do you believe that the impulse to taunt other human beings, who do care about animals, isn’t a major factor?
Well you’ve self defined a disagreement with your particular perspective on animal rights as being “taunting”, whereas the person telling you the perspective you disagree with may simply consider it “telling the truth”. Is it “taunting” intelligent design advocates to tell them their ideas have no rational merit and are arguments from emotion?
Labeling a disagreement with your perspective as as a “taunt” immediately brands it as bad faith argument you need t not consider. It’s kind of a lazy way to defend your perspective.
label it a “taunt” because it serves no other purpose that I can see. As I’ve said, the animals in question aren’t hearing it.
It could well be that my hypothetical “Grandfather” is a burden. But would you judge my response the same way if someone told me that and I called it “uncaring”? At what point does “simply telling the truth” become a social taboo or a cruelty?
It’s not a question of this person deciding that my Grandfather has more value than my cat. The issue is respecting my feelings. Or not, obviously.
If I had to choose between my Grandfather and a cat, I’d choose my Grandfather. But it is a cruelty to ask me to choose - especially when the choice is unecessary (or hypothetical). Either choice is a loss and a heartbreak for me.
Re " The issue is respecting my feelings. Or not, obviously."
Crafter Man’s perspective on cats as tools vs companions was generated in the context of a message board thread discussion regarding the life and death decisions people make about animals. It’s not about you, or your feelings, or your friend’s feelings it’s about the discussion at hand.
True, but in our society cats are widely viewed as being companions. Crafter_Man’s views on cats go strongly against the views of much of american society. So it’s not a surprise that his comments about cats being “tools” to use don’t go over very well with some of us. I imagine that a cattle rancher in India, where cows are viewed as sacred by much of their population, would get the same kind of reactions.
I think the disturbing part is that he feels the need to comment in “pet cat” threads. He isn’t a pet owner, has no intention of being a pet owner, and doesn’t “get” the concept of pet ownership. He should not be offering his opinion on pet ownership topics.
You’re a city guy, rats are a problem in cities. If you see one, you kill it. If someone posts about the cost of keeping pet rats, do you tote out your favorite dead rat story? Do you mention that your only rat maintenance cost is keeping the trap full of peanut butter? Of course you don’t, it’s rude to enter a pet thread with the attitude that the animal is worthless, or worse.
You know, I actually get that. I know the discussion isn’t about me. I used a first-person example as illustration. Maybe that was a bad idea, since it reads as overly emotional and personal? I’m sorry you keep missing my point.
If you don’t agree with my (friend’s) theory, that’s fine. But it would be nice if you addressed the theory itself rather than individual posters. I’m not trying to flame Crafter Man, or anyone specifically - just trying to understand the motivation behind making those kind of remarks in threads about companion animals.
I’ve noticed quite an increase in that behavior from a variety of posters over the past few months. Someone starts a “talk about your dog” thread, for example; after several posts of general discussion, someone has to pop in and say “X breed is evil, they should be banned!” or “A big dog attacked my child, they shouldn’t be allowed as pets!” or “All dogs are just waiting to attack, it’s only a matter of time!” It doesn’t add anything to the original discussion, and the whole thread dissolves into a borderline flame war.
I can’t speak to Crafter Man’s motivation as he is his own man, but WRT the larger point you keep trying to make, that its rude, inappropriate and “taunting” for him (or anyone) to make a comment antagonistic to the notion of animals as companions, you might well have a point if he (or anyone) was dropping it into polite IRL conversation about pets, or a thread questioning how to help a sick animal, or deal with the grief over the death of beloved pet. However, in a thread that specifically addresses the limits of human toleration before (effectively) killing an animal, the morality of that choice, and other issues related to that decision, to note that he considers cats to be tools, and has very limited toleration for animal misbehavior, is not out of place. It may be offensive to those who consider cats as dear companions, but it’s a valid (even if highly unpopular) observation in the context of that (this) thread, and it’s shared by many working people in rural locations (farmers, ranchers etc) who do see cats as easily replaceable tools, and occasionally as near vermin.
I agree - except I didn’t say the remarks were inappropriate for this particular thread or discussion.
If you recall, I never posted a comment to Crafter Man at all. I responded to Blalron’s comment about why views like his (in general) might be disturbing to some people. I’m sorry if you consider that aspect a hijack to your thread - I didn’t think it was at the time.
How much longer are you going to dance around it? Clearly, you have a hard-on for Crafter Man because of his stated opinions and actions WRT cats. Why not juat open a pit thread and be done with it?
For the record, I am one of those people who considers cats to be within a nanometer of being vermin. The only ting that stops me from saying they are unrelieved vermin is that, no matter what varmint you may bring up, there is somebody out there who keeps one as a pet and just loves his little darling to pieces.
Are you talking to me? If so, we have a misunderstanding here.
I don’t know Crafter Man (I don’t know anyone here), so why or how could I flame him in the Pit? What would I say? “How dare you not like cats!”? And then what? If too many others started attacking him, I’d see him as an underdog and start defending him, and then… well, it would just be crazy, and completely unproductive.
I already know and accept that there are people who don’t like cats, or other animals, and as I’ve said, my expectations are low in that regard. I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind about it, and even if that were possible, I doubt flaming a stranger on a messageboard would turn the trick.
But I will admit, I am curious about why people like Crafter Man (or you, since you’ve stated your feelings here), display what seems like hostility towards people who do like animals.
Is there any skin off your nose if someone loves a cat, or a dog, or even a cockroach to pieces (to quote you)? Where is this hostility coming from? Have animals had a significant negative impact on your life in some way? Did you lose the love of your life to a sweet-talking Siberian Husky? What???
I have my theories, but I sincerely don’t understand it. Do you?
You know, I don’t expect that you’ll reply to me, but I can still hope that you will. This is supposed to be a place to fight ignorance. Fight my ignorance instead of fighting me, and help me understand.
Not trying to stick my nose into somebody else’s disagreement but I’d truly like to know what your theories are. Would you share them? In the interest of fighting ignorance and all… 
For my part, I don’t really blame the OP’s actions (or the actions of the actual story teller). But I’m a self professed non pet person. Never had them. Never wanted any. I don’t hate animals and if I lived on a farm I’d probably have some dogs and cats for protection and utility. I don’t condone cruelty to animals but do support the raising of animals for their use as food (chickens, cows) or sport (horses) or even financial gain. Animals, in posession by humans are chattel. That is my view. If somebody chooses to keep them as a companion then that’s no skin off my nose but I find it a bit strange and I have a theory about that as well.
What I do find annoying and rather off putting is how people with pets assume that others care and fawn over animals to the same extent. Singles on dating sites are notorious for either posing with their pet or devoting several photos in their profile to their pet alone. I’m not interested in your cat or dog. I want to know about you and see a flattering picture of you. I have kids. I don’t hide that fact and it’s up on my profile. But you won’t see a single photo of my children with me or (worse) by themselves. And they are beautiful children who are much more a reflection of me as a father and human being than any pet I could ever imagine. People who call their pets children and refer to themselves as mommy or daddy quite frankly scare and befuddle me.
I am not hostile toward animals. I do not get my jollies from seeing animals suffer. But at the same time, I have absolutely no feelings toward animals, either.
I vaguely remember that thread. Obviously it bothered you a lot more than it did me.
I still don’t see the “hate”. Dispassion, maybe, or even callousness, but those don’t equal hate.
My theory: many people who love their pets often come across as being “animal elitists”. They aren’t really animal lovers; they only love the type of animal their pet is. This type of cat owner (for the sake of example only; it’s not limited to cat owners), in response to hearing that you raise hamsters or rats, snickers, “Ohh, my kitty would love to meet your pets!” This type of cat owner thinks about buying a pet bird to keep her cat entertained, and seems surprised when you point out that she’s dooming another animal to a short and stressful life. This type of rat owner (to switch gears) accuses anyone who keeps a pet snake of being a sadist if they feed their pet live rodents (which is a bad idea anyway, but that’s another story). This type of dog owner thinks it’s the squirrel’s fault that their dog can see it through the window and is freaking out.
You meet enough of these people, and, just like in any other area of life, you start to develop a reflexive reaction to folks who gush on about their “fur-babies” and such.
I’d consider severe litterbox issues refusing to use the litterbox for feces. Cat urine stinks to high heaven and isn’t pleasant to live around. Cat feces can carry diseases that are dangerous to small children and pregnant women.
And I’ve heard about a case that was successful - but I’m not a lawyer and its a friend of a friend sort of story.
Coming from a country that has NO snakes (none in the wild, in the zoos or as pets) I know NOTHING about them but why is feeding them a seemingly natural food bad?
Have pet snakes been conditioned to a diet that is far removed from their wild diet (like dogs and cats)?
[anecdotal evidence]
I once lived next door to a guy who owned a boa constrictor. It wouldn’t eat dead rats, only live ones. He used to invite us over on Fridays to watch him drop the rat into the cage, and we would bet on how long it would last.
It’s possible that Pazu meant using wild rats. My friend always got his from the pet store. Less likely to carry disease that way.
Regards,
Shodan