# Slavery, you dumbass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 1, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666 "2017-05-01T22:04:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/21 "2017-05-02T01:07:07Z")
The slaves? You mean those guys who immigrated here from Africa? If they’d have just stayed in Africa, guess what? No Civil War. And most of them are murderers and rapists; we should have built a wall and made Africa pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/22 "2017-05-02T01:18:49Z")
You don’t get much more strongman in American politics than Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/23 "2017-05-02T01:28:09Z")
> [@HeXen](#): > > I think his contention was that all of everything going on, including slavery could have been worked out to end slavery without a war…which was possible. Cite for anything that supports your contention that the South would have been willing to work out a solution that ends slavery. In your answer, discuss how the Confederate states immediately moved for succession after Lincoln’s election, before he’d even been inaugurated. Also, reference the February 1861 Peace Conference that was boycotted by half the slave states (who had already moved for succession because of slavery) and which fell apart because the committee could only agree to pass the Corwin Amendment, protecting slavery in its existing state. Finally, discuss the fact that South Carolina shot first and how this is consistent with your assertion that the South would have been willing to compromise and end slavery. Bonus points if you quote the various Confederate State constitutions and explain how all those references to protecting their “peculiar institution” were really pleas for negotiation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/24 "2017-05-02T01:28:50Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Yeah, I know. For all we know, Jackson would have waged a bloodier war than Lincoln did to preserve the Union. Is it possible that Trump was thinking of – well, _that;_ but also the _opposite?_ Like, assume for the sake of argument that what happened under Lincoln was pretty much inevitable: if the South goes to war over slavery, then a grey-clad Virginian is eventually going to surrender. I mean, granted, it may take four solid years; but, so long as the commander-in-chief is a man who won’t back down, then the Union will endure and the Confederacy will be crushed. And so – the reasoning would go – if Jackson had been president, then he could and would have simply relayed _that_ to the South: _there’s no reason to fight, as you’ll be up against that Old Hickory resolve, which means I will wage bloody war until my side wins as it must; you will surrender then, unless you surrender now. And so you may as well work it out now, instead of losing a war and working it out then._ Imagine that belief is in Trump’s head, and everything falls into place: why was there a war? Because the South didn’t realize they were facing a threat-of-force that was no bluff whatsoever – which they _would’ve_ realized, if they’d been facing Jackson. And would Trump want that to be the story, if he thinks of _himself_ that way? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/25 "2017-05-02T01:35:24Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Jeez, he should just stick to lying about the present. [He’s not good at that, either.](http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/05/01/trump-first-100-days-ad-fact-check-orig.cnn/video/playlists/top-news-videos/) > [@panache45](#): > > The slaves? You mean those guys who immigrated here from Africa? If they’d have just stayed in Africa, guess what? No Civil War. And most of them are murderers and rapists; we should have built a wall and made Africa pay for it. Sean Spicer sees that you are aiming for his job and he is [going to spice you](https://youtu.be/LHpZHblKOs0) if you don’t back off. Only Spicy gets to bumble explanations for Trump’s legendary gaffs. #LetHimMisspeak Stranger ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/26 "2017-05-02T01:41:35Z")
[QUOTE=HeXen] Granted Trump could have worded more clearly, it wasn’t an efficient interview and looks very edited from the start. Then again Trump has always been more of a business man than a social butterfly. [/QUOTE] from the book on how to be a successful businessman _The Way to the Top_ by Donald Trump > [@](#): > > . . .Communicate with care. . . maybe he should take his own advise. mc ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/27 "2017-05-02T01:41:46Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Cite for anything that supports your contention that the South would have been willing to work out a solution that ends slavery. > > In your answer, discuss how the Confederate states immediately moved for succession after Lincoln’s election, before he’d even been inaugurated. Also, reference the February 1861 Peace Conference that was boycotted by half the slave states (who had already moved for succession because of slavery) and which fell apart because the committee could only agree to pass the Corwin Amendment, protecting slavery in its existing state. > > Finally, discuss the fact that South Carolina shot first and how this is consistent with your assertion that the South would have been willing to compromise and end slavery. > > Bonus points if you quote the various Confederate State constitutions and explain how all those references to protecting their “peculiar institution” were really pleas for negotiation. Ouch. Nice take-down. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/28 "2017-05-02T01:43:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Imagine that belief is in Trump’s head, and everything falls into place: why was there a war? Because the South didn’t realize they were facing a threat-of-force that was no bluff whatsoever – which they _would’ve_ realized, if they’d been facing Jackson. > > And would Trump want that to be the story, if he thinks of _himself_ that way? Anything is possible with Trump, but his other quotes don’t support this interpretation. He said Jackson was a tough man, but he had a “big heart”. As if to imply that Jackson had too much empathy and compassion to ever raise a hand against those rascally rebels in the south. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/29 "2017-05-02T02:02:41Z")
> [@HeXen](#): > > snip > Trump was referring back to the nullification crisis during Jackson’s time and the tariff’s derived from that. It was the expansion of slavery that caused the Civil war, not slavery in of itself. You guys need to understand the culture of the era and the political nature of that time period and more importantly for this discussion, the economy. Jackson preserved the union in the 30’s…that lived on in the Civil War. > > Where Trump says “I mean, had Andrew Jackson been a little later, you wouldn’t have had the Civil War.” He was clearly giving opinion on what he thought potentially could have been. That really did make me laugh out loud. Cite that Trump has ever, ever expressed any considered, in-depth analysis of, well, anything. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/30 "2017-05-02T02:08:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Ann Hedonia** : > > 1. Then Fox further morphed into “the channel that knows Trump is watching and only shows things he wants to see and hear.” So they started comparing Trump to Andrew Jackson. To be fair, of all of the presidents we’ve had, Jackson probably is the one who was most similar to Trump. This is not complimentary to either man. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/31 "2017-05-02T02:15:50Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Yes and no. The other problem is that he apparently thinks no one has considered the question before. The profound ignorance that exhibits is breathtaking. I can agree with that. I’d just quibble that I did cover that in the generic “No one knew it would be so difficult to…” in my post. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/32 "2017-05-02T02:37:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To be fair, of all of the presidents we’ve had, Jackson probably is the one who was most similar to Trump. Except unlike Trump, who simply improbably boasts about his ability to kill someone on Fifth Avenue, Jackson did actually kill someone, and in a duel where he took a bullet and kept going. If someone hit Donald Trump with a spitball he’d collapse and start crying like a kindergartner. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/33 "2017-05-02T02:45:32Z")
Oh, no doubt that Jackson was much more badass than Trump (and probably the second-biggest badass we’ve had as president): The analogy isn’t perfect. But both were populists who ran and won as crude, unrefined outsiders against the establishment, both proved incompetent at actually dealing with the establishment once they’d won, and both are dangerously unpredictable. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/34 "2017-05-02T04:05:12Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Yes and no. The other problem is that he apparently thinks no one has considered the question before. The profound ignorance that exhibits is breathtaking. I said before that Trump shows all the signs of pathological narcissism. So in Trump’s mind, if he hasn’t considered the issue of the causes of the Civil War before that means the subject has never been considered. To Trump, all events center around himself. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/35 "2017-05-02T04:21:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I said before that Trump shows all the signs of pathological narcissism. So in Trump’s mind, if he hasn’t considered the issue of the causes of the Civil War before that means the subject has never been considered. To Trump, all events center around himself. Now you know why he keeps the orange spray tan. He thinks he’s a sun. For him, it’s not about actually knowing or doing anything; it’s all about looking the part. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/36 "2017-05-02T04:43:35Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Now you know why he keeps the orange spray tan. He thinks he’s a sun. For him, it’s not about actually knowing or doing anything; it’s all about looking the part. Holy shit, that’s classic. A sun. I never thought about that! I can hear it now: “I Am Apollo!!!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/37 "2017-05-02T04:57:18Z")
> [@MaddyStrut](#): > > Because if we’d had a great deal maker who made the best deals, the greatest deals, HUGE deals, then we could have found a compromise that worked for everyone. Except for, you know, the slaves. But they don’t count. Ah, they aint got no reason to complain. Full employment out in the open air, not like today where they all live in inner cities and get shot going to the store. Everyone wins! ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/38 "2017-05-02T05:31:05Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > > [@Monty](#): > > > > Now you know why he keeps the orange spray tan. He thinks he’s a sun. For him, it’s not about actually knowing or doing anything; it’s all about looking the part. > > Holy shit, that’s classic. A sun. I never thought about that! I can hear it now: “I Am Apollo!!!” 😃 Or at least _[le Roi Soleil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XIV_of_France)_ (_“L’état, c’est moi”_ only adds to the resemblance). ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/39 "2017-05-02T05:35:37Z")
> [@HeXen](#): > > The media…and some here, completely ignored his reference to Jackson and Civil War because they didn’t put it all together.All you guys wanted to see what was taken out of context, the final quote. Likely not knowing anything about the nullification of 1832, the tariff’s and everything leading to the Civil War **HeXen** , I’m aware of the Nullification Crisis, and it certainly occurred to me that Trump may have heard someone mention it and jumped to the conclusion that because war was prevented in 1833 – while making substantial concessions to the demands of the South on the issue of tariffs – that somehow war could have been prevented in 1861 _without_ largely agreeing to the demands of the South on the issue of slavery. _If_ that’s Trump’s position, I don’t think it’s a defensible one, and it didn’t seem worth it to devote space in my OP to an attempt to work backwards from the gibberish coming out of Trump’s mouth to whatever more coherent ideas may have entered his ears and passed through his blender of a brain. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666/40 "2017-05-02T06:18:31Z")
Even President Comcacho would be better than Trump right now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slavery-you-dumbass/785666.md?page=3)