# Sleazy car salesman: Would you be as upset as I? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 20, 2018, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841 "2018-11-20T10:18:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/21 "2018-11-20T17:01:50Z")
I’d be upset that the car didn’t have the wheel locks I paid for. I would not be so upset that the $97 wasn’t mentioned or that they are cheaper through the parts department. Not getting what you paid for, though, is a problem and I would also have demanded a refund. I think picking up the phone and calling is more effective than snail mail, though. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/22 "2018-11-20T17:03:45Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Wheel locks are pretty useless. Yeah, this is a real “pick your battles” kind of thing. Sucks to get ripped off, but they probably did you a favor in the long run. Thieves broke in and cleaned out my daughter’s car one night a few years ago, including a little tool kit containing - you guessed it - the wheel lock key. Took me all afternoon laying on my back in the driveway to get those lugs off by slowly grinding them out with a dremel tool, one at a time until they came loose. MAJOR PITA. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/23 "2018-11-20T17:24:36Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Tangent: Do wheels really get stolen? I’ve never had wheel locks and don’t believe I’ve known anyone with wheel locks and I’ve never heard of wheels getting stolen. Just a couple of weeks ago several of the homes in my neighborhood were hit by wheel thieves during the night. Wheel locks likely would have been effective because they don’t want to draw attention to themselves by breaking glass to get to the correct bit. Many more years ago while a my Army reserve drill weekend, several cars in parking lot were wheel thief victims. That takes balls, because we have guns and such. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/24 "2018-11-20T17:31:56Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Why are you sending letters? You have a car, use it. > > Drive over there and demand to see the manager about them stealing the wheel locks you paid for. Demand it from someone sitting at a desk with a customer in front of him. > > Just interrupt them mid sentence, if it’s your salesman all the better, if it’s not, you’ll get attention just the same. \*\*Don’t yell, just be very clear \*\*that they forced you to pay for an item that was pre-installed on the car, removed them before delivering the car, and are not giving you the refund you deserve. Most important thing Don’t yell. But speak in a very strong voice. Speak slowly and clearly so everyone in the room can hear and understand what you are saying. I had a sales manager wanting to get me out of their store as fast as they could that way. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/25 "2018-11-20T18:23:15Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Just a couple of weeks ago several of the homes in my neighborhood were hit by wheel thieves during the night. Wheel locks likely would have been effective because they don’t want to draw attention to themselves by breaking glass to get to the correct bit. > > Many more years ago while a my Army reserve drill weekend, several cars in parking lot were wheel thief victims. That takes balls, because we have guns and such. All: Thanks for the education about this phenomenon. I always thought it was a joke in comedy movies about leaving your car in the bad part of the neighborhood: You come out and it’s sitting on cinder blocks. Guess it really happens. This is another benefit for living in my region: We don’t need to lock our wheels to the axle. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/26 "2018-11-20T18:48:44Z")
> [@Crazy Canuck](#): > > Do you not have small claims court where you are located? This is the exact type of thing that it is useful for. > [@:Joey P](#): > > Personally, I don’t think it’s worth paying the $50 or $100 fee and having to show up in court (and convince the judge) over $97. Small claims court filings routinely allow you to ask for the cost of bringing the action (including time off work and such). I’d think it’d be quicker and more satisfying to embarrass the dealership by showing up to demand satisfaction in front of other customers. A bit more stressful though. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/27 "2018-11-20T19:06:27Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > All: Thanks for the education about this phenomenon. I always thought it was a joke in comedy movies about leaving your car in the bad part of the neighborhood: You come out and it’s sitting on cinder blocks. Guess it really happens. > > This is another benefit for living in my region: We don’t need to lock our wheels to the axle. Keep in mind that these aren’t, generally, the cheap generic steel wheels, but instead fairly expensive aluminum alloy ones. You can also spend a lot (like I think a thousand dollars each) for fancy wheels from a tire shop. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/28 "2018-11-20T19:21:31Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Keep in mind that these aren’t, generally, the cheap generic steel wheels, but instead fairly expensive aluminum alloy ones. You can also spend a lot (like I think a thousand dollars each) for fancy wheels from a tire shop. The stock wheels that have come with my vehicles have always performed their job well: They never fell off, became squares, rusted away, etc. I’ve never understood paying that much money for custom wheels which seems to be mainly about looks. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/29 "2018-11-20T19:26:27Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > This is another benefit for living in my region: We don’t need to lock our wheels to the axle. That’s not what wheel locks are. Wheel locks are special lug nuts. Instead of being a hex nut, they are round and have a channel cut in the top. Then you get a “key” which is actually a kind of bolt that has ridges that mate with the channel. You insert the key, which has a hex head, then use the standard lug nut wrench on it. > [@wguy123](#): > > Tangent: Do wheels really get stolen? I’ve never had wheel locks and don’t believe I’ve known anyone with wheel locks and I’ve never heard of wheels getting stolen. In the areas where \*do \*they steal wheels, wheel locks are probably not a barrier. I bought a used Toyota RAV4 that came with wheel locks. But they didn’t give me the key. I went back to the dealer to get it. The guy came out with a case that had a dozen or so keys, and he just kept trying them until he found the one that fit. There were a dozen, not a thousand. It took him less than a minute. If a dealer can have a whole set of those, then I have no doubt they are available on the black market. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/30 "2018-11-21T15:53:28Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > … > In the areas where \*do \*they steal wheels, wheel locks are probably not a barrier. I bought a used Toyota RAV4 that came with wheel locks. But they didn’t give me the key. I went back to the dealer to get it. The guy came out with a case that had a dozen or so keys, and he just kept trying them until he found the one that fit. There were a dozen, not a thousand. It took him less than a minute. If a dealer can have a whole set of those, then I have no doubt they are available on the black market. You don’t even have to go to the black market. [They have them on Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/Steelman-Pro-78537-16-Piece-Locking/dp/B00JF5F420) ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/31 "2018-11-21T17:07:27Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > In the areas where \*do \*they steal wheels, wheel locks are probably not a barrier. I bought a used Toyota RAV4 that came with wheel locks. But they didn’t give me the key. I went back to the dealer to get it. The guy came out with a case that had a dozen or so keys, and he just kept trying them until he found the one that fit. There were a dozen, not a thousand. It took him less than a minute. If a dealer can have a whole set of those, then I have no doubt they are available on the black market. Ah, it’s like the locks that used to be on PCs back in the 90s. If you owned a PC, or even a $5 lockable box for floppy disks, you’d have the key to unlock every single PC on planet Earth. I guess that was handy if you lost the key, sort of. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/32 "2018-11-21T17:48:14Z")
The first thing that’s taken off a abandoned car are the wheels. The only car I had with special lugs was an Oldsmobile Calais in the early 90’s. I didn’t understand why until I had to replace my tires. They were low profile performance tires that cost over $200 (remember this was the in the 90’s) that were only available from Goodyear. Plus the rims were probably pretty expensive too. When I got my new car last year (the two prior vehicles were trucks), I made sure the tires weren’t anything special. BTW, having a special lug was a major pain. A couple of times when getting tire rotation or a replacement, I’d come back after a couple of hours only to find I forgot to leave out the plug or they couldn’t find it so nothing was done. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/33 "2018-11-21T23:11:46Z")
This sounds like it would make a good [Judge Judy](https://www.judgejudy.com/submit_your_case) episode. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/34 "2018-11-26T20:25:04Z")
The thing that will make it tough on the OP is this: “There was a line item for $97, but the description was conspicuously blank.”. Now, that in and of itself looks suspicious - as why are they adding a random 97 dollar charge to the bill - but it does NOT prove that the OP paid for wheel locks. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841/35 "2018-11-27T14:53:46Z")
How much is your time worth? And do you ever intend to go back to this dealer for service? As others have said, being dicked out of $97 on a $20k car purchase would hardly cause me to pause. When I bought my car last year, the damned final number kept moving. When we sat down to finalize the deal, it had moved yet again. I was asking the salesman to explain why, but my wife just pointed to the bottomline and said, “That number works for us.” So who knows why $97 one way or the other here or there was allocated to “dealer prep,” “trade-in allowance,” or whatever else? Even tho I thought the price should have been slightly lower, the specific car had exactly what I wanted, and the difference was not worth me trying to establish a new deal with a different dealer. I’d likely just pursue this via e-mail to corporate HQ, cc:ed to the dealer. As I understand it, the dealers are VERY interested in getting positive feedback and avoiding negative. When it came down to finishing the deal, we told them we would give them fully positive ratings ONLY IF they got us out of there in less than 1/2 hour. That seemed to motivate them… And sending e-mails keeps a copy of your communications and (for me) is less time and emotion consuming that in-person visits or even telephone calls. If you feel you will not get satisfaction and have no desire ever to work with the dealer again, I’d probably toss a couple of negative comments on social media. Btu I suspect I’d quickly put this in my rearview mirror (provided one was included on your new car! ;)). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleazy-car-salesman-would-you-be-as-upset-as-i/824841.md?page=1)