# Sleep formula. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 3, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120 "2018-02-03T21:21:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CastletonSnob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ea924/32.png) [@CastletonSnob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastletonSnob)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/1 "2018-02-03T21:21:40Z")
I’ve been taking this OTC sleep formula stuff off and on since 2007. It contains melatonin. I’m worried my body will stop producing melatonin on my own. Will that happen? How do I get off it? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/2 "2018-02-03T21:31:15Z")
Here is an [NIH study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402070/) that suggest your melatonin levels have more to do with a healthy diet and sufficient darkness cycles than any supplementation you might have been using. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/3 "2018-02-04T00:03:08Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Here is an [NIH study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402070/) that suggest your melatonin levels have more to do with a healthy diet and sufficient darkness cycles than any supplementation you might have been using. His supplement IS melatonin. He’s asking if adding melatonin to his diet will cause his body to compensate by producing less. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/4 "2018-02-04T01:28:21Z")
How much melatonin are you taking? Recommendations are to take 0.1 to 0.5 mg 2-4 hours before normal sleep time. Per my sources: High-dose melatonin supplements (1-10 mg range) raise plasma melatonin concentrations to a supraphysiologic level (3-60 times normal) and alter normal day/night melatonin rhythms. Supraphysiologic concentrations of melatonin produce numerous biological effects, including daytime sleepiness, impaired mental and physical performance, hypothermia, and hyperprolactinemia. These effects are not observed with physiologic concentrations of melatonin. I couldn’t find anything about whether regular use decreases endogenous production, but I suspect that it would. How do you get off it? Stop taking it. Perhaps just substitute 0.3 mg of melatonin 2-4 hours before sleep. Study relaxation techniques that can aid sleep. Avoid caffeine. Avoid exercise in the hours just before bedtime, and avoid food/alcohol then too. Read up on other sleep hygiene tips. White knuckle it for as long as it takes, and if it takes too long, consult a sleep specialist physician. ---
**Author:** ![CastletonSnob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ea924/32.png) [@CastletonSnob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastletonSnob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/5 "2018-02-04T01:44:05Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > How much melatonin are you taking? Recommendations are to take 0.1 to 0.5 mg 2-4 hours before normal sleep time. Per my sources: High-dose melatonin supplements (1-10 mg range) raise plasma melatonin concentrations to a supraphysiologic level (3-60 times normal) and alter normal day/night melatonin rhythms. Supraphysiologic concentrations of melatonin produce numerous biological effects, including daytime sleepiness, impaired mental and physical performance, hypothermia, and hyperprolactinemia. These effects are not observed with physiologic concentrations of melatonin. > > I couldn’t find anything about whether regular use decreases endogenous production, but I suspect that it would. > > How do you get off it? Stop taking it. Perhaps just substitute 0.3 mg of melatonin 2-4 hours before sleep. Study relaxation techniques that can aid sleep. Avoid caffeine. Avoid exercise in the hours just before bedtime, and avoid food/alcohol then too. Read up on other sleep hygiene tips. White knuckle it for as long as it takes, and if it takes too long, consult a sleep specialist physician. It says a serving (2 pills) contains 2 mg, but I only take 1 pill. Here’s the formula I’m talking about: [https://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/sleep-support-60-capsules/vs-2166?mr:trackingCode=A02A5D84-C9E0-E511-80ED-00505694403D&mr:referralID=NA&sourceType=sc&source=SHOP&acqsource=adlucent&utm\_source=Shopping&utm\_medium=CSE&utm\_campaign=the%20Vitamin%20Shoppe&utm\_content=VS-2166&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2NXTBRDoARIsAJRIvLz8-OYcgfNjHl-RirlQnNvVNIn0uRt\_x-aLXK9S7BH0tt1iLTlu9wEaAh4LEALw\_wcB](https://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/sleep-support-60-capsules/vs-2166?mr:trackingCode=A02A5D84-C9E0-E511-80ED-00505694403D&mr:referralID=NA&sourceType=sc&source=SHOP&acqsource=adlucent&utm_source=Shopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=the%20Vitamin%20Shoppe&utm_content=VS-2166&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2NXTBRDoARIsAJRIvLz8-OYcgfNjHl-RirlQnNvVNIn0uRt_x-aLXK9S7BH0tt1iLTlu9wEaAh4LEALw_wcB) I don’t think I even really need the pills, but I just worry if I’m not asleep in 15-20 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/6 "2018-02-04T01:56:48Z")
> [@CastletonSnob](#): > > It says a serving (2 pills) contains 2 mg, but I only take 1 pill. > > Here’s the formula I’m talking about: [https://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/sleep-support-60-capsules/vs-2166?mr:trackingCode=A02A5D84-C9E0-E511-80ED-00505694403D&mr:referralID=NA&sourceType=sc&source=SHOP&acqsource=adlucent&utm\_source=Shopping&utm\_medium=CSE&utm\_campaign=the%20Vitamin%20Shoppe&utm\_content=VS-2166&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2NXTBRDoARIsAJRIvLz8-OYcgfNjHl-RirlQnNvVNIn0uRt\_x-aLXK9S7BH0tt1iLTlu9wEaAh4LEALw\_wcB](https://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/sleep-support-60-capsules/vs-2166?mr:trackingCode=A02A5D84-C9E0-E511-80ED-00505694403D&mr:referralID=NA&sourceType=sc&source=SHOP&acqsource=adlucent&utm_source=Shopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=the%20Vitamin%20Shoppe&utm_content=VS-2166&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2NXTBRDoARIsAJRIvLz8-OYcgfNjHl-RirlQnNvVNIn0uRt_x-aLXK9S7BH0tt1iLTlu9wEaAh4LEALw_wcB) > > I don’t think I even really need the pills, but I just worry if I’m not asleep in 15-20 minutes. VALERIAN - (VALERIANA OFFICINALIS)(ROOT) 300 Mg N/A\* L-THEANINE 200 Mg N/A\* GAMMA-AMINOBUTYRIC ACID - (GABA) 250 Mg N/A\* 5-HYDROXYTRYPTOPHAN - (5HTP) 250 Mg N/A\* MELATONIN 2 Mg The pills are BS, it’s got too much melatonin in it and the other stuff isn’t clearly associated with helping sleep at all. Atop taking it, practice sleep hygiene. It’s not unusual at all to take longer than 15-20 minutes to fall asleep. ---
**Author:** ![CastletonSnob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ea924/32.png) [@CastletonSnob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastletonSnob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/7 "2018-02-04T01:58:27Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > VALERIAN - (VALERIANA OFFICINALIS)(ROOT) > 300 Mg > N/A\* > L-THEANINE > 200 Mg > N/A\* > GAMMA-AMINOBUTYRIC ACID - (GABA) > 250 Mg > N/A\* > 5-HYDROXYTRYPTOPHAN - (5HTP) > 250 Mg > N/A\* > MELATONIN > 2 Mg > > The pills are BS, it’s got too much melatonin in it and the other stuff isn’t clearly associated with helping sleep at all. > > Atop taking it, practice sleep hygiene. It’s not unusual at all to take longer than 15-20 minutes to fall asleep. You don’t think they actually help me sleep? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/8 "2018-02-04T02:01:12Z")
> [@CastletonSnob](#): > > You don’t think they actually help me sleep? About as well as a placebo. There’s not much risk to taking it, but imho it’s a waste of money. Suit yourself. ---
**Author:** ![CastletonSnob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ea924/32.png) [@CastletonSnob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastletonSnob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/9 "2018-02-04T02:03:52Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > About as well as a placebo. > > There’s not much risk to taking it, but imho it’s a waste of money. Suit yourself. I should be fine either way? How long should I give myself to fall asleep? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/10 "2018-02-04T02:08:03Z")
> [@CastletonSnob](#): > > I should be fine either way? > > How long should I give myself to fall asleep? Assuming you’re an adult, at least 30 minutes. And even if that takes longer, that doesn’t make it a problem. Unless you’re suffering from sleep deprivation regularly, at least. Insomnia is present when all three of the following criteria are met: ●A complaint of difficulty initiating sleep, difficulty maintaining sleep, or waking up too early. In children or individuals with dementia, the sleep disturbance may manifest as resistance to going to bed at the appropriate time or difficulty in sleeping without caregiver assistance. ●The above sleep difficulty occurs despite adequate opportunity and circumstances for sleep. ●The impaired sleep produces deficits in daytime function. ---
**Author:** ![CastletonSnob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ea924/32.png) [@CastletonSnob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastletonSnob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/11 "2018-02-04T02:14:11Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Assuming you’re an adult, at least 30 minutes. > > And even if that takes longer, that doesn’t make it a problem. Unless you’re suffering from sleep deprivation regularly, at least. > > Insomnia is present when all three of the following criteria are met: > > ●A complaint of difficulty initiating sleep, difficulty maintaining sleep, or waking up too early. In children or individuals with dementia, the sleep disturbance may manifest as resistance to going to bed at the appropriate time or difficulty in sleeping without caregiver assistance. > > ●The above sleep difficulty occurs despite adequate opportunity and circumstances for sleep. > > ●The impaired sleep produces deficits in daytime function. I wake up at 5:30-6:00. But that’s because I got to bed at 9:30-10:00. I function fine during the day. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/12 "2018-02-04T02:24:23Z")
> [@CastletonSnob](#): > > I wake up at 5:30-6:00. But that’s because I got to bed at 9:30-10:00. > > I function fine during the day. Sounds like you don’t have a problem with insomnia then. how long does it take you to fall asleep? ---
**Author:** ![CastletonSnob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ea924/32.png) [@CastletonSnob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastletonSnob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/13 "2018-02-04T02:35:40Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Sounds like you don’t have a problem with insomnia then. > > how long does it take you to fall asleep? I don’t really keep count, but about 15-20 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/14 "2018-02-04T02:41:08Z")
> [@CastletonSnob](#): > > I don’t really keep count, but about 15-20 minutes. I’m not seeing a problem then. At least based on what little you’ve said here. Keep taking your sleep placebo if you like. I doubt you need it, but doubt it’s hurting you either. This does not count as a doctor visit, or binding medical advice, since you’re not my patient. Be very, very thankful that you’re not my patient. ---
**Author:** ![CastletonSnob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ea924/32.png) [@CastletonSnob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastletonSnob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/15 "2018-02-04T02:42:23Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I’m not seeing a problem then. At least based on what little you’ve said here. Keep taking your sleep placebo if you like. I doubt you need it, but doubt it’s hurting you either. > > This does not count as a doctor visit, or binding medical advice, since you’re not my patient. Be very, very thankful that you’re not my patient. Why should I be thankful? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/16 "2018-02-04T02:49:03Z")
> [@CastletonSnob](#): > > Why should I be thankful? For the last 16 years, I’ve chosen to restrict my practice solely to convicted felons who reside in prison. They’re actually a lot more polite than the average patient. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/17 "2018-02-04T03:02:09Z")
His patients \*want \*to sleep lightly. (or if possible with one eye open.) Pilots who live in perpetual jet lag or people who work the night shift, etc. have their own unique set of sleep problems unrelated to any biological or psychological causes. Those are the cases where things like melatonin can help. If you’re going to sleep and waking up at approximately the same time every day and find you can’t sleep without this cocktail of hormones and root extracts you might just have become dependent on it since you’ve been taking it for 11 years. In that case as the doctor said, just go cold turkey and spend a few sleepless nights until you start falling asleep normally. If I absolutely can’t get to sleep and need to be up early sometimes I take a Benadryl. I’m sure that’s also not recommended for a variety of reasons but it works and I don’t do it often. ---
**Author:** ![CastletonSnob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ea924/32.png) [@CastletonSnob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastletonSnob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/18 "2018-02-04T03:08:14Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > His patients \*want \*to sleep lightly. (or if possible with one eye open.) > > Pilots who live in perpetual jet lag or people who work the night shift, etc. have their own unique set of sleep problems unrelated to any biological or psychological causes. Those are the cases where things like melatonin can help. If you’re going to sleep and waking up at approximately the same time every day and find you can’t sleep without this cocktail of hormones and root extracts you might just have become dependent on it since you’ve been taking it for 11 years. In that case as the doctor said, just go cold turkey and spend a few sleepless nights until you start falling asleep normally. > > If I absolutely can’t get to sleep and need to be up early sometimes I take a Benadryl. I’m sure that’s also not recommended for a variety of reasons but it works and I don’t do it often. But I usually sleep well without it. Like I said, I just worry if I’m not asleep in 15-20 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/19 "2018-02-04T03:08:54Z")
> [@CastletonSnob](#): > > But I usually sleep well without it. Like I said, I just worry if I’m not asleep in 15-20 minutes. Simple answer then: don’t worry. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2018, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120/20 "2018-02-04T03:12:31Z")
> [@CastletonSnob](#): > > But I usually sleep well without it. Like I said, I just worry if I’m not asleep in 15-20 minutes. Can you let go of the worry? Because it’s just costing you money. Especially since you sleep well without it. Worry about the inevitable heat-death of the universe, or the triumph of time over space, or Ginnungagap or something . . . [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleep-formula/808120.md?page=2)