# Sleepy Hollow **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 17, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020 "2013-09-17T01:55:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/201 "2013-10-16T15:11:22Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > When Ichabod was demonstrating his tracking skills, he showed Abbie a flower that would close up after somebody living touched it. The girl in “Roanoke” was holding one of those flowers–in full bloom. We later find all those people were dead… I’ll second **Just Ed** : good catch! > [@LVBoPeep](#): > > I don’ t know how accurate they were but I felt like I could rewatch the whole show in Middle English. It was just fun to listen to and I admit I replayed those parts. Agreed! (Well, I didn’t replay anything, but I enjoyed listening to them!) ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/202 "2013-10-16T16:24:30Z")
Thirded! It’s good that the show is paying attention to little details. I liked that the Middle English was almost understandable. Some of it sounded like German to me. So would Middle English be known as Middle English when Ichy was at Oxford? I’m wondering when Old English and Middle English became Old and Middle. There’s about the same amount of time between the three time periods – Roanoke and the Revolution and present day, but the language doesn’t seem to have changed that much between the Revolution and now. So big changes from Roanoke to Revolution? Enough changes so that someone would study it and learn to speak it? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/203 "2013-10-16T16:39:19Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Enough changes so that someone would study it and learn to speak it? If that is what the grant were for. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/204 "2013-10-16T17:51:53Z")
Thomas Jefferson studied Anglo Saxon, which would be more difficult than Middle English, which basically had a more limited vocabulary and pronounced all the letters. Chaucer to Spencer. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/205 "2013-10-16T17:56:39Z")
Eddie Izzard presented a documentary series on Discovery Channel called Mongrel Nation, and in one programme he learnt some Old English. He then went to Friesland and found a local Frisian-speaking farmer. Izzard asked to buy a cow in Old English, and the farmer more or less understood and led him off to look at cows. You can see the clip from the series on YouTube[here.](http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OeC1yAaWG34&feature=related) ---
**Author:** ![Nuveena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a587f6/32.png) [@Nuveena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nuveena)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/206 "2013-10-16T20:34:47Z")
> [@Nuveena](#): > > He wasn’t really an Oxford history professor. > [@Rollo\_Tomasi](#): > > He first said that he was an Oxford professor while he was taking the polygraph after being picked up by the cops in the pilot. > [@epbrown01](#): > > You may want to take another look at the polygraph scene in the pilot. Okay, clearly I don’t watch this show closely enough (or come back to this thread enough) to be correcting anyone. I cringed thinking about my previous post when he brought up Oxford again this week. ---
**Author:** ![Sodalite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@Sodalite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sodalite)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/207 "2013-10-16T22:05:05Z")
So now we get to wonder who called Officer Jealous back from “Oxford” and confirmed Ichy’s cover story. Is there another Ichabod Crane running around or are the good witches running interference for him? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/208 "2013-10-17T13:37:55Z")
I’m beginning to like it more. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/209 "2013-10-18T22:53:30Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > When Ichabod was demonstrating his tracking skills, he showed Abbie a flower that would close up after somebody living touched it. The girl in “Roanoke” was holding one of those flowers–in full bloom. We later find all those people were dead… Damn it! Sleepy Hollow has outsmarted me. The history continues to not disappoint. The Middle English was fun, but when they were going to the trouble of translating several lines of dialogue into Middle English surely it must have come up that the Roanoke Colony was a century too late for the people there to be speaking it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/210 "2013-10-18T23:16:00Z")
Shakespeare was 20 when Roanoke was chartered, so you are correct. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/211 "2013-10-18T23:31:48Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > The Middle English was fun, but when they were going to the trouble of translating several lines of dialogue into Middle English surely it must have come up that the Roanoke Colony was a century too late for the people there to be speaking it. Yeah, this was the first historical error to bug me - because not only is it 100+ years out, there’s no good reason for it… It doesn’t fit the ‘official history hid the creepy truth’ explanation that covers the Washington stuff, and the trouble most people seem to have with Shakespeare would have let Early Modern English serve the same narrative purpose. (Middle English was pretty much dead by the late 15th century. Roanoke was founded in the late 16th, chartered by Elizabeth I - quite contemporary to Shakespeare, nowhere near Chaucer.) I’m not an expert on ME, by any stretch, but I think the pronunciation was too modern, too. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/212 "2013-10-19T00:14:15Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > When Ichabod was demonstrating his tracking skills, he showed Abbie a flower that would close up after somebody living touched it. The girl in “Roanoke” was holding one of those flowers–in full bloom. We later find all those people were dead… just in case someone would like to have one. they can grow in north carolina, i don’t see new york listed. cue the twilight zone music. > **[Mimosa pudica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimosa_pudica)** > > Mimosa pudica (also called sensitive plant, sleepy plant,\[citation needed\] action plant, humble plant, touch-me-not, touch-and-die, or shameplant) is a creeping annual or perennial flowering plant of the pea/legume family Fabaceae. It is often grown for its curiosity value: the sensitive compound leaves quickly fold inward and droop when touched or shaken and re-open a few minutes later. For this reason, this species is commonly cited as an example of rapid plant movement. Like a number of The... the silk tree that greatly resembles the mimosa can grow in new york. therefore i reckon that the little girl was holding the silk leaves and flower, so that they did not close when she held it. tricksie show. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/213 "2013-10-21T02:42:32Z")
Just caught up on this show, and it’s quite a bit of fun. I like how it’s just totally ballsy in randomly appropriating any fact or episode from history that it needs. The Boston Tea Party? George Washington? Hessians? Mohawks? Yeah, we got them. I also like that it’s trying to stick a balance with having some fish-out-of-water time-traveler stuff without just making the entire show be about that, but there are two things that kind of grate on me about how they’re handling it: (1) As others have mentioned, Crane’s clothes. Did the Witchy spell keep them from disintegrating after being buried for 200 years? And aren’t they uncomfortable? And wouldn’t it be helpful if he blended in more? (2) I agree that we wouldn’t gain much by having hours and hours of screen time devoted to people attempting to debunk Crane’s story, but I would have loved at least a throwaway line of dialog like “we had Dr. Smith down at the state college check some of the details in his story, and he sure knew an amazing amount about personnel of the continental army”. (Crazy sister seemed to be going in that direction for a moment, then nothing came of it). One other thing I do like is that they definitely do NOT seem to be doing a LOST-style constant-introducing-of-new-mysteries thing. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/214 "2013-10-21T07:35:04Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > That would take an extremely dumb soldier to misread the title when he was holding the fucking Bible in his hands open to the fucking Book of Revelation right in front of him and looking right at it. It isn’t dumb of me to dislike stupidity. Soldier or detective or demon hunter, whatever, Crane shows considerable intelligence and just cannot be _that_ dumb. But the fucking script writers can. Kroger\* has a giant fucking sign on top of the building that says “Kroger” and several more of various sizes in near every store, yet damned if as many people as not don’t call the place “Krogers”. Adding an s is just something that happens sometime, no matter how many times you see the name in print, or giant fucking letters bigger than a person, with no s to be found. \*Happens with places other than Kroger, though Krogers is a bit more prevalent than Walmarts, K-marts, etc. However, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone call Meijer anything but Meijers other than in a Meijer ad. ---
**Author:** ![GovernmentMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GovernmentMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GovernmentMan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/215 "2013-10-21T11:18:59Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > (2) I agree that we wouldn’t gain much by having hours and hours of screen time devoted to people attempting to debunk Crane’s story, but I would have loved at least a throwaway line of dialog like “we had Dr. Smith down at the state college check some of the details in his story, and he sure knew an amazing amount about personnel of the continental army”. (Crazy sister seemed to be going in that direction for a moment, then nothing came of it). Why would the sister doubt his story? She’s no stranger to all the supernatural stuff, and she just tested him a little bit. Why would she not believe him? ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/216 "2013-10-21T13:09:41Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Adding an s is just something that happens sometime, no matter how many times you see the name in print, or giant fucking letters bigger than a person, with no s to be found. > > \*Happens with places other than Kroger, though Krogers is a bit more prevalent than Walmarts, K-marts, etc. However, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone call Meijer anything but Meijers other than in a Meijer ad. I think it happens with names that people perceive as a person’s name. And since you’d naturally call a store run by Billy “Billy’s Store”, adding the S sound is automatic. Sort of the reverse happens, too. How many times have you seen “Johns Hopkins” referred to as “John Hopkins”? The rules on names are deeply rooted in us. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/217 "2013-10-21T14:41:18Z")
There are revelations in the Book of Revelation. Easy mistake to make, especially if you’re talking about what’s in the book and not the book itself. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/218 "2013-10-21T14:47:54Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > …(1) As others have mentioned, Crane’s clothes. Did the Witchy spell keep them from disintegrating after being buried for 200 years? And aren’t they uncomfortable? And wouldn’t it be helpful if he blended in more?.. Yes, i’m pretty sure the spell that kept Crane from rotting away also affected his clothes. (In the “awakening” scene, we see jars of preserved reptiles shattering. And then we see the reanimated critters hopping & slithering away. Powerful magic there.) In episode 2, we saw him rinsing some items and using the hair dryer on them. He’s keeping them up a bit… If he wore that sort of outfit all his life, I doubt he’s uncomfortable. However, in the last episode, Abbie\* did\* mention that his wardrobe could use some updating–before they had to rush off to fight Evil. So we may well get an amusing sequence of Ichabod in the changing room before the season is over. But I’ll bet any new outfit will retain the more dashing elements of his current look. They will not turn him into another shlub with a crewcut & a polo shirt… ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/219 "2013-10-21T15:42:22Z")
> [@GovernmentMan](#): > > Why would the sister doubt his story? She’s no stranger to all the supernatural stuff, and she just tested him a little bit. Why would she not believe him? I dunno, why would she? There was a weird scene where she seemed to be quizzing him for a second, and then nothing more was made of it. ---
**Author:** ![GovernmentMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GovernmentMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GovernmentMan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/220 "2013-10-21T16:09:34Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I dunno, why would she? There was a weird scene where she seemed to be quizzing him for a second, and then nothing more was made of it. Probably cause she was convinced at that point? Why wouldn’t she? There was nothing more to be made of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020.md?page=12)