# Sleepy Hollow **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 17, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020 "2013-09-17T01:55:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/101 "2013-09-23T20:13:54Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The Winchesters tacked the Four Horsemen. Of course, they didn’t ride horses–they drove. Anybody who can enjoy _Supernatural_ can get behind this show. Mr. Death on _Supernatural_ was infinitely more suave and articulate. “_Don’t_ scratch it.” ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/102 "2013-09-23T20:45:37Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > My mini-gripe was that Abbie could have backed his story from the jump, simply saying “I’m not saying the guy _was_ headless, I’m saying his get-up made him _look_ that way - I don’t know how. Seems like this guy saw him too.” Once we’re all agreed that someone in Revolutionary-era garb is decapitating people with a broad axe, is it really a stretch to say they guy’s outfit mimics a local legend about being headless? Ah, but we find out later she has a history of being ‘crazy’ and seeing demons. She did not want that coming back to, well, haunt her. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/103 "2013-09-23T21:16:42Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Mr. Death on _Supernatural_ was infinitely more suave and articulate. > > “_Don’t_ scratch it.” It’s much more interesting when the bad guys aren’t just homicidal nutjobs, but just reasonable people with their own agenda. I liked Death on _Supernatural_ (aside: we’ve hit a point where everything in the _Supernatural_ world seems to get along with Dean). ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/104 "2013-09-24T00:10:15Z")
> [@simster](#): > > The good witch said that Ichabod and the Horseman were ‘bound by blood’ - its reasonable that the Horseman/demons know this as well No, it’s not. Ichabod didn’t know until his wife told him, and didn’t know the Horseman was alive until Abbie mentioned his brand. If the villains were so omniscient that they can figure out what happened without any access to the entities in question, they’d have had no trouble finding the head. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/105 "2013-09-24T01:12:51Z")
OK, so they now called the HH a Hessian (pronounced Hess-ee-an like the Tim Burton movie). In a red coat. 😛 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/106 "2013-09-24T02:22:20Z")
I didn’t say I wouldn’t be refusing to watch it; I still am watching it. But their slapdash approach to facts does impair my enjoyment of it. I have to wonder about the accents: Icky and Katrina are using modern British accents, on the presumption that Americans during the Revolution still talked like Brits. Perhaps they did, but that probably would not have sounded like the British accents of today. American English retained a lot of older characteristics while speech in England introduced innovations. In particular, when did the pronunciation “leftenant” evolve? The American pronunciation lu:tenant is almost certainly the older one, and the shift to the /f/ sound must have developed in England some time after American independence. Compare Greek \*leukos \*\> Modern Greek _lefkos_. The sound of postvocalic /u/ can shift to /f/ over time, but it doesn’t generally run the other direction. Katrina van Tassel would have spoken English with a Dutch accent, not British. The Dutch language survived in the Hudson valley for many years. Martin Van Buren came from around there, and he grew up speaking Dutch, and learned English as a second language. Nobody had been burning any witches since a very long time before the American Revolution, and even during the Salem Witch Trials, the last time anyone was executed on a charge of witchcraft in America, they hanged, not burned, the condemned ones. That was a very glaring anachronism. As for the fire witch speaking “Romani Greek,” I’m sorry, but she was speaking just plain Greek, nothing “Romani” about it. OK, this show is “high concept,” so that could be their response to accusations of carelessness with historical and linguistic facts: it’s high concept, never mind the details. After all, who would even care about such trifles except a few intellectual geeks? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/107 "2013-09-24T02:52:26Z")
The kick to the head was Crane saying that ‘The battle of Lexington was planned here’. Ummm, that was kinda unplanned as a battle. Not to mention before Washington’s involvement, etc. Witches bones must protect the black powder, not just from absorbing moisture but being ignored during some obvious upgrades to the tunnel. "Explosives? Not in my union’s department. Just leave 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/108 "2013-09-24T03:22:29Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Nobody had been burning any witches since a very long time before the American Revolution, and even during the Salem Witch Trials, the last time anyone was executed on a charge of witchcraft in America, they hanged, not burned, the condemned ones. That was a very glaring anachronism. {hand waving with vigor} This is an alternate universe, where magic is real. So witches did get burned in Sleepyverse. {/hand waving with vigor} Otherwise, I got nothing. Did enjoy the second episode, though. I plan to keep recording/watching the show. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/109 "2013-09-24T03:29:08Z")
Sleepyverse? Jesus Christ. Buffy on a stick! ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/110 "2013-09-24T13:59:02Z")
Besides the battle of Lexington, someone lived on Bedford Street. Bedford being the town directly between Lexington, MA and Concord, MA. Where another important incident happened. As Emerson put it: By the rude bridge that arched the flood, Their flag to April’s breeze unfurled, Here once the embattled farmers stood, And fired the shot heard round the world. Or maybe I’m giving the writer’s too much credit. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/111 "2013-09-24T14:14:48Z")
I noticed that the Four Horsemen aren’t your regulation Four Horsemen: Instead of Plague, we have Conquest (not to be confused with War). I’m guessing at this point we’ve got a Grimm-inspired Monster-of-the-Week show. ---
**Author:** ![GovernmentMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GovernmentMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GovernmentMan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/112 "2013-09-24T15:11:31Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I have to wonder about the accents: Icky and Katrina are using modern British accents, on the presumption that Americans during the Revolution still talked like Brits. Perhaps they did, but that probably would not have sounded like the British accents of today. American English retained a lot of older characteristics while speech in England introduced innovations. In particular, when did the pronunciation “leftenant” evolve? The American pronunciation lu:tenant is almost certainly the older one, and the shift to the /f/ sound must have developed in England some time after American independence. Compare Greek \*leukos \*\> Modern Greek _lefkos_. The sound of postvocalic /u/ can shift to /f/ over time, but it doesn’t generally run the other direction. Are you really taking umbrage about the usage of modern British vs older British accents? You seriously expect the actors to learn a completely alien and esoteric accent? Do you complain about this fact in every historical movie/show featuring Brits? Also I’m pretty sure Crane is a Brit in this show. > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > I noticed that the Four Horsemen aren’t your regulation Four Horsemen: Instead of Plague, we have Conquest (not to be confused with War). I’m guessing at this point we’ve got a Grimm-inspired Monster-of-the-Week show. Conquest is actually part of the OG Four Horsemen - Conquest, War, Famine and Death. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/113 "2013-09-24T20:54:24Z")
After the action of the premier, this was a little bit of a let down, but I guess I didn’t really expect them to keep that up for the whole series. I like the little puzzles but solutions so far seem a bit too linear and maybe not contrived but not seamless either. I think I understand the dilemma though. You need to build up enough excitement that you get decent ratings but to do that I suppose you sacrifice a certain amount of plot development - at least up front. Still, I’m not getting the feeling of darkness and hidden mysteries that I think the story needs. Clearly the attempt is being made and I can’t really say why it doesn’t seem to be succeeding - or maybe I can. Creating the action they think they need for ratings requires a level of overtness I think that is inconsistent with this sort of story. But what makes tales of this kind is the uncertainty and sense of anticipation. Darkness is dark because it’s hidden, brooding, foreboding. Nothing here is hidden from the viewer. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/114 "2013-09-24T21:10:07Z")
I thought the episode was okay. A couple of surprises were John Cho and Clancy Brown re-appearing; as the heavy-hitters (relative to the rest of the cast) I thought they were there to add a little glamour to the pilot and move on. One of Sam Kinison’s old jokes was that when you see those commercials about starving kids, you wonder why the cameraman doesn’t give the kid a sandwich? Crane is under guard 24/7, but seems relatively harmless - so why can’t the deputy walk him thru how to work a hotel room? Or someone on the hotel staff? By now, someone should have given him a book on modern history at least… At what sort of psych hospital lets the patients watch _Terminator 2_? Big sis has clearly seen Sarah Connor in action, and we’re gearing up for a re-hash of John Connor’s “you were right all along and I didn’t believe you…” speech. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/115 "2013-09-24T22:11:06Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > when did the pronunciation “leftenant” evolve? The American pronunciation lu:tenant is almost certainly the older one, and the shift to the /f/ sound must have developed in England some time after American independence. I have to retract this: sources say that both the /lef/ pronunciation and the /lu:/ pronunciation go back in England for many centuries. > [@GovernmentMan](#): > > I’m pretty sure Crane is a Brit in this show. Well, that sure explains a lot. A British supporter of the American Revolution? Like John Wilkes? OK, whatever. That’s no crazier than turning him into a police detective. The original Crane as created by Irving was kind of a weenie anyway. No wonder they’d want to redesign him. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/116 "2013-09-24T23:23:29Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > One of Sam Kinison’s old jokes was that when you see those commercials about starving kids, you wonder why the cameraman doesn’t give the kid a sandwich? Crane is under guard 24/7, but seems relatively harmless - so why can’t the deputy walk him thru how to work a hotel room? Or someone on the hotel staff? By now, someone should have given him a book on modern history at least… If he’s really under guard, wouldn’t it stand to reason that the deputies would just watch him and not interact with him? Abbie is pretty much the only one who interacts with him that doesn’t consider him a dangerous lunatic. I’m sure the hotel staff has been told to stay away from him ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/117 "2013-09-24T23:42:44Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > By now, someone should have given him a book on modern history at least… Considering that the Sheriff’s funeral was in this week’s episode, approximately 3 days have elapsed since he came back from the dead. In that time, he’s been in jail, in a psych ward, and otherwise running around with Abby. There’s two supernatural entities causing mayhem in the area (well, presumably one left) American History 101 is likely somewhat lower on the priority list for the moment. But I am kinda wondering how that 250+ year old black powder explosion big enough to charbroil the already charbroiled witch somehow went unnoticed, despite taking place in the tunnels under the police department… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/118 "2013-09-24T23:53:20Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Well, that sure explains a lot. A British supporter of the American Revolution? Like John Wilkes? OK, whatever. That’s no crazier than turning him into a police detective. The original Crane as created by Irving was kind of a weenie anyway. No wonder they’d want to redesign him. But why go all through the crap of making him a British deserter? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/119 "2013-09-25T00:31:45Z")
A few things: Directed by Ken Olin? The Thirtysomething guy? Did you notice the two leads have the same hairdo? Ichabod is as sexy as fuck on fire. More shower Crane! Who is the woman who plays Abbie? She’s very appealing. I’d love to see a romantic jungle fever subplot. Stretch Armstrong Sulu scared the hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020/120 "2013-09-25T00:41:16Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If he’s really under guard, wouldn’t it stand to reason that the deputies would just watch him and not interact with him? Abbie is pretty much the only one who interacts with him that doesn’t consider him a dangerous lunatic. I’m sure the hotel staff has been told to stay away from him Crane’s situation seemed more like witness protection/sequestering than imprisonment; he was already cleared as a murder suspect and didn’t display violent tendencies, so I can’t see why an armed deputy would think he’s benign enough to put in a motel but dangerous enough to avoid contact with. I could be wrong, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sleepy-hollow/669020.md?page=7)