# Slipped under the radar?? \[About me getting kicked out of gym\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 24, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872 "2011-08-24T05:16:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/21 "2011-08-24T20:38:47Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I find that this is as honest as I can be, since ‘Mommy’ says we can’t discuss the actual factors. Feel free – just do it in the Pit, not here. Mommy ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/22 "2011-08-24T20:42:33Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Huh? I don’t know what you are saying there but _this_ is the section of the ADA that HHFC was not in compliance with. \*Exercise machines and equipment; I had no accessible lat-pulldown machine or equipment. I assume that “HHFC” is the fitness club in question. So are you saying that you were using the “lat-pulldown machine” in their club but none is available elsewhere and since they banned you, you no longer have a way to do this exercise? I still don’t see how that’s their problem. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/23 "2011-08-24T21:37:51Z")
They didn’t ban you because you are disabled. They banned you because you caused too much trouble in their parking lot (as well as other areas of the gym, I’m guessing, based on the tone and content of your posts on this message board). Also, regarding your post about requirements in the 2010 standards not subject to Safe Harbor, those standards [do not go into effect until 2012](http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/smallbusiness/smallbusprimer2010.htm#element) - so your gym has not been violating any ADA rules yet by not having ADA accessible exercise equipment: > [@](#): > > The revised ADA rules and the 2010 Standards contain new requirements for elements in existing facilities that were not addressed in the original 1991 Standards. These include recreation facilities such as swimming pools, play areas, exercise machines, miniature golf facilities, and bowling alleys. Because these elements were not included in the 1991 Standards, they are not subject to the safe harbor. **Therefore, on or after March 15, 2012, public accommodations must remove architectural barriers to elements subject to the new requirements in the 2010 Standards when it is readily achievable to do so.** For example, a hotel must determine whether it is readily achievable to make its swimming pool accessible to people with mobility disabilities by installing a lift or a ramp as specified in the 2010 Standards. And really, all that law requires is that they have wheelchair access to the exercise equipment - not that they have to have specific exercise equipment for you. Also nothing in the law that says they are required to give you membership just because you’re disabled. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/24 "2011-08-24T22:37:08Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > You need a hobby. He already has one. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/25 "2011-08-24T23:00:44Z")
Sounds like when I was working Security and we’d trespass someone (non-student) from the University for openly surfing porn in the library. A small percent of them would threaten all manner of legal crap (against a Law School? Good Luck With That) because they had no other access to the Internet and therefore WE (a private University that just happened to be mere blocks from their apartment) were somehow obligated to provide it to them. Or the guy who skipped out on a check at the Perkins I was guarding, attempted to rob someone right outside the front door, got chased down by the neighboring mall police and ended up being trespassed from the Mall AND the Perkins… and then whined and complained because he didn’t have a car, lived two blocks away and the mall contained the only grocery store he could get to. And gosh, we were going to pay for that! :rolleyes: Nah, you act like a shit and get trespassed, it is your fault. They are under no obligation to do jack shit for you at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/26 "2011-08-24T23:48:30Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > This is true, however; why do none of these people _ever_ mention or even acknowledge the fact that this is by no means a settled issue? Perhaps because they don’t care? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/27 "2011-08-25T00:07:27Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Perhaps because they don’t care? Perhaps; but then they _ **do** _ care enough to mention _the incident_ in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/28 "2011-08-25T00:10:13Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > They didn’t ban you because you are disabled. They banned you because you caused too much trouble in their parking lot (as well as other areas of the gym, I’m guessing, based on the tone and content of your posts on this message board). > > Also, regarding your post about requirements in the 2010 standards not subject to Safe Harbor, those standards [do not go into effect until 2012](http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/smallbusiness/smallbusprimer2010.htm#element) - so your gym has not been violating any ADA rules yet by not having ADA accessible exercise equipment: > > And really, all that law requires is that they have wheelchair access to the exercise equipment - not that they have to have specific exercise equipment for you. Also nothing in the law that says they are required to give you membership just because you’re disabled. I’m not talking about exercise equipment _just for me_. That is preposterous. They have no **accessible** lat-pulldown machines/equipment- **period.** ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/29 "2011-08-25T00:19:35Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I assume that “HHFC” is the fitness club in question. So are you saying that you were using the “lat-pulldown machine” in their club but none is available elsewhere and since they banned you, you no longer have a way to do this exercise? I still don’t see how that’s their problem. Wha? Im not saying that at all. I’m saying part of the reason they banned me was because I was making an issue out of this lack of accessible equipment (a month or so prior to the “parking lot fiasco”), which was an ADA violation in and of itself. The parking lot incident, which served as the catalyst for removing me from the gym permanently, only served as a convenient excuse for this manager, [name removed], to get rid of a problem she just didn’t want to deal with in the correct, _legal_ manner. This is evidenced by the fact that other members, in the past, have committed the _very same_ parking-actions as myself, with absolutely NO punitive actions taken against them whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/30 "2011-08-25T00:24:28Z")
Thank you to all of those who responded to my thread without hostility or rancor. I received this letter from the Dept of Justice with a little naivete, I will admit. It looks as though, after reading some of the relevant comments, that this is a standard letter given in these cases. It does not mean my case is frivolous, however; just as it does not mean my case is meritous either. I will do what I can do and go as far as this avenue takes me; that is all I can do. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/31 "2011-08-25T00:29:20Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Sounds like when I was working Security and we’d trespass someone (non-student) from the University for openly surfing porn in the library. A small percent of them would threaten all manner of legal crap (against a Law School? Good Luck With That) because they had no other access to the Internet and therefore WE (a private University that just happened to be mere blocks from their apartment) were somehow obligated to provide it to them. > > Or the guy who skipped out on a check at the Perkins I was guarding, attempted to rob someone right outside the front door, got chased down by the neighboring mall police and ended up being trespassed from the Mall AND the Perkins… and then whined and complained because he didn’t have a car, lived two blocks away and the mall contained the only grocery store he could get to. And gosh, we were going to pay for that! :rolleyes: > > Nah, you act like a shit and get trespassed, it is your fault. They are under no obligation to do jack shit for you at that point. Likening what I did to skipping out on a check, _attempted robbery_ or publicly surfing internet porn in libraries is totally disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/32 "2011-08-25T00:43:25Z")
What slipped under the radar? People’s posts referring to your parking lot incident? What exactly are they getting away with? I’m so confused. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/33 "2011-08-25T00:50:40Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > What slipped under the radar? People’s posts referring to your parking lot incident? What exactly are they getting away with? I’m so confused. I meant did the letter from the Dept of Justice (which I posted a few weeks earlier with no response), potentially signifying a sound legal basis to my claim, slip under the radar? “Slipped under the radar”, it would seem, because several posters continued to bring up the original story when posting in unrelated threads of mine, without ever acknowledging the fact that the unfortunate story was not a settled issue. (that is what was meant by my OP, I have since been informed of the true nature of the DOJ letter, which is more perfunctory than I had originally interpreted it) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/34 "2011-08-25T01:06:38Z")
Why did you wait until post 9 to mention that this was about the lat pulldown machine? Not only that, you seemed to imply (or at least I inferred) it was about the parking lot incident in your OP. Maybe it’s just me, but I swear you do this on purpose. Everyone gets all riled up telling you that you were a jerk in the parking lot and they were well within their rights to yank your membership _then_ you mention it’s about access to a machine. I called you out on the handicap placard thread as well. So, out of curiosity, what are you hoping to accomplish by this? Your membership? That’s not going to happen. Access to the machine? Okay, but you still won’t be able to use it. Money? I wouldn’t count on it since it sounds like they don’t have to legally provide access to every machine anyways. And no matter what happens, you’re going to cost the gym money. On top of that, other gyms aren’t going to be so happy to have you as a member either. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/35 "2011-08-25T01:12:34Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I’m not talking about exercise equipment _just for me_. That is preposterous. They have no **accessible** lat-pulldown machines/equipment- **period.** Allowing that they would have to under the ADA laws (and I don’t believe they do), did this “violation” somehow occur after March15, 2012? Is your wheelchair made by Delorean? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/36 "2011-08-25T01:16:49Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Why did you wait until post 9 to mention that this was about the lat pulldown machine? Not only that, you seemed to imply (or at least I inferred) it was about the parking lot incident in your OP. Maybe it’s just me, but I swear you do this on purpose. Everyone gets all riled up telling you that you were a jerk in the parking lot and they were well within their rights to yank your membership _then_ you mention it’s about access to a machine. > I called you out on the handicap placard thread as well. > > So, out of curiosity, what are you hoping to accomplish by this? Your membership? That’s not going to happen. Access to the machine? Okay, but you still won’t be able to use it. Money? I wouldn’t count on it since it sounds like they don’t have to legally provide access to every machine anyways. And no matter what happens, you’re going to cost the gym money. On top of that, other gyms aren’t going to be so happy to have you as a member either. And _ **I** _ am not costing the gym money, _ **the law** _ is what is going to cost the gym money. First of all, everything that has been talked about here was ALL in previous stories. I explained, in detail, the banning of the pullups and the lack of accessible equipment. I posted the letter I wrote to the DOJ. It spoke of all of this. Just because I didn’t mention it immediately _here_ doesn’t mean anything. Secondly, every single other gym I’ve been to (and there have been a few) since this has happened has embraced me and fully supported me in my training. The attitude expressed by HHFC regarding my disability and my training (and disability and accessibility at large) stands in _ **stark contrast** _ to both of the gyms I currently train at now. And it’s not _ **I** _ that will cost the gym money, it’s \ ***the law** \* that will do so. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/37 "2011-08-25T01:29:20Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > And _ **I** _ am not costing the gym money, _ **the law** _ is what is going to cost the gym money. They have until March, 2012 to bring these things up to code. Who’s going to pay to defend them against you? It’s not free. They’ll either have to send an employee or lawyer to the mediation or the hearing to deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/38 "2011-08-25T01:29:53Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > And _ **I** _ am not costing the gym money, _ **the law** _ is what is going to cost the gym money. > First of all, everything that has been talked about here was ALL in previous stories. I explained, in detail, the banning of the pullups and the lack of accessible equipment. I posted the letter I wrote to the DOJ. It spoke of all of this. Just because I didn’t mention it immediately _here_ doesn’t mean anything. > > Secondly, every single other gym I’ve been to (and there have been a few) since this has happened has embraced me and fully supported me in my training. The attitude expressed by HHFC regarding my disability and my training (and disability and accessibility at large) stands in _ **stark contrast** _ to both of the gyms I currently train at now. And it’s not _ **I** _ that will cost the gym money, it’s \ ***the law** \* that will do so. What is your response to the cited fact that **the law** isn’t in force until next year? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/39 "2011-08-25T01:33:02Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > What is your response to the cited fact that **the law** isn’t in force until next year? Um, ok, in a few months, the law will cost the gym money. :rolleyes: Forgive me. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/40 "2011-08-25T01:34:25Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > They have until March, 2012 to bring these things up to code. Who’s going to pay to defend them against you? It’s not free. They’ll either have to send an employee or lawyer to the mediation or the hearing to deal with it. And your point? They could just _decline_ participation. D’oh! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872.md?page=3)