# Slipped under the radar?? \[About me getting kicked out of gym\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 24, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872 "2011-08-24T05:16:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/41 "2011-08-25T01:47:53Z")
So… I mean, there’s no reason the gym has to have a lat-pulldown machine _at all_. My gym, which is a city facility and therefore sort of shitty, hasn’t had a working pool heater in months. That means I can’t use the pool, because I can’t deal with cold water. I didn’t call the government about it. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/42 "2011-08-25T01:53:57Z")
In post 9 you said it was an issue with no access to the lat-pull down machine. > [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I had no accessible lat-pulldown machine or equipment. Later, you changed that to pullups. > [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I explained, in detail, the banning of the pullups and the lack of accessible equipment. I posted the letter I wrote to the DOJ. It spoke of all of this. Just because I didn’t mention it immediately _here_ doesn’t mean anything. It actually means a lot. You can’t simply assume everyone reads every thread and hangs off your every word. Anyways. I did a quick search for lat-pulldown and found out you can’t use the machine anyways due to some inherent design issues with the machine. So, you reported the gym to the DOJ/ADA because they don’t provide access to a machine (that they don’t legally have to) that you can’t use in a gym you’re not a member of? Awesome! > [@](#): > > Ok, this exercise came into existence because I couldn’t use the variety of lat-pulldown machine they had in their gym > [@](#): > > In particular, lat-pulldown machines are often unusable for me due to the way the machines are designed I ran across your " in detail, the banning of the pullups" if you want to go that route then that has nothing to do with how this started. I mean, you said you had been doing it for years, so _clearly_ you had access to this machine, so it’s not that. So, that tells me you reported them to the DOJ for banning you from using the machine in a way that’s not approved by the gym. Ya know what, it’s their gym, and their rules. No judge is going to see it differently. Either way, keep your story straight. Did you report them for not having access to the pulldown machines that you can’t use anyways (and from which I inferred that you had at least tried, so you must have had access) or did you report them for not letting you do your self invented, unapproved wheelchair pullups that required two spotters that had probably never dealt with lifting someone in a wheelchair and has nothing to do with gaining access to a particular machine. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/43 "2011-08-25T01:55:56Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Um, ok, in a few months, the law will cost the gym money. :rolleyes: > > Forgive me. Not if they bring everything up to code, which they probably will. Why make them defend themselves against a frivolous lawsuit in the mean time? And on top of that, YOU’RE costing the taxpayers money. Even if nothing happens at all, some clerk had to take the time to read your letter, send out a form letter, get your reply, send something to them, get their reply, contract out a mediator, arrange the meeting etc etc etc…that’s tax payer money. If you’re so sure they won’t bring anything up to code, wait until after March 2012 then sue them. > [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > And your point? They could just _decline_ participation. D’oh! They’ll probably take the mediation so they don’t have to hire a lawyer and they can tell you, with out involving the court system, to leave them alone since they’re not breaking any laws all they have to do is walk in with the cite that’s been posted here and ask you what is is you, a non-member, would like them to do about a law that isn’t in effect for another 7 months. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/44 "2011-08-25T02:14:47Z")
You know, Jamie, this gym could actually have a pretty decent libel case against you based on your incorrect and unfounded claims of law breaking on their part. More of a case than you have against them at least. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/45 "2011-08-25T02:20:53Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Um, ok, in a few months, the law will cost the gym money. :rolleyes: > > Forgive me. So you admit the case you’ve been making against them has been completely unfounded (because the law isn’t even in fucking effect yet)? Really, this is a good thing. We’ve all grown a lot today. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/46 "2011-08-25T04:07:46Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I’m sorry you view my life in such trivial light. I don’t expect empathy from online strangers, but at least humor me and let me talk about it without cutting me down. Hey, it’s not like you’d want me to extend you sympathy or special consideration simply because you are are in a wheelchair, would you? ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/47 "2011-08-25T05:28:00Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > So… I mean, there’s no reason the gym has to have a lat-pulldown machine _at all_. This. Seriously - sometimes a machine will break down at my gym and therefore nobody has access to it until it is fixed. Can I file a complaint about them for that? I doubt it. I understand that things need to be accessible to the disabled and I don’t think most people have any issue with that. But I don’t see how that translates to ‘the gym should provide a way for me to do every single exercise I can possibly imagine, and if they don’t they’re breaking the law’. The makeshift lat pulldowns that the OP has described are basically a made-up exercise that the gym has determined to be too dangerous and neither he\* nor anybody else \*is allowed to do them. How is that discriminatory? It sounds like the standard lat pulldown machine cannot be reasonably adapted to allow him to use it. Presumably that is also true of other machines in the gym. Surely it isn’t the expectation that every single machine be usable by every single client no matter what their physical limitations? So what’s the problem exactly? The gym isn’t allowing someone to dangle dangerously from their equipment while they wait for the inevitable lawsuit when he injures himself or someone nearby? Or the gym refuses to buy special equipment only wanted by a small number of people (possibly only one person)? Neither of those seem like punishable offences to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/48 "2011-08-25T05:33:35Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > So… I mean, there’s no reason the gym has to have a lat-pulldown machine _at all_. My gym, which is a city facility and therefore sort of shitty, hasn’t had a working pool heater in months. That means I can’t use the pool, because I can’t deal with cold water. I didn’t call the government about it. SMH. They _do_ offer lat-pulldowns, however. Simply not _accessible_ versions. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/49 "2011-08-25T05:44:25Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > In post 9 you said it was an issue with no access to the lat-pull down machine. > Later, you changed that to pullups. > > It actually means a lot. You can’t simply assume everyone reads every thread and hangs off your every word. > Anyways. I did a quick search for lat-pulldown and found out you can’t use the machine anyways due to some inherent design issues with the machine. So, you reported the gym to the DOJ/ADA because they don’t provide access to a machine (that they don’t legally have to) that you can’t use in a gym you’re not a member of? Awesome! > > I ran across your " in detail, the banning of the pullups" if you want to go that route then that has nothing to do with how this started. I mean, you said you had been doing it for years, so _clearly_ you had access to this machine, so it’s not that. So, that tells me you reported them to the DOJ for banning you from using the machine in a way that’s not approved by the gym. Ya know what, it’s their gym, and their rules. No judge is going to see it differently. > > Either way, keep your story straight. > Did you report them for not having access to the pulldown machines that you can’t use anyways (and from which I inferred that you had at least tried, so you must have had access) or did you report them for not letting you do your self invented, unapproved wheelchair pullups that required two spotters that had probably never dealt with lifting someone in a wheelchair and has nothing to do with gaining access to a particular machine. I am so confused by this garbled mess I don’t even know what to say. I will just try to say this: I _ **never** _ had access to a lat-pulldown machine/equipment in all of the years I trained at HHFC. That is entire reason the “wheelchair pullups” were invented in the first place, _ **out of necessity.** _ What I _had_ been doing for years, before it was arbitrarily taken from me, _ **were the wheelchair pullups.** _. Since HHFC, which has always had a public image of the community advocate for disability, illness, etc., was unwilling to furnish their establishment with handicap-accessible lat-pulldown equipment, I was basically forced to come up with a way, on my own, to do the exercise. Which I did, quite successfully, in the form of the wheelchair pullup. When it was banned, I had already been performing the exercise in that facility for years. I was performing it at an advanced level, and it was a source of inspiration to others watching me do it. The fact that HHFC banned this exercise, which was a by-product of their failure to provide handicap accessible equipment, and _still_ failed to provide this equipment after disallowing the exercise is my issue. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/50 "2011-08-25T05:48:37Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I was performing it at an advanced level, and it was a source of inspiration to others watching me do it. Wait wut? I thought being an Inspirational Cripple {TM}} was anathema to you? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/51 "2011-08-25T05:49:30Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > I understand that things need to be accessible to the disabled and I don’t think most people have any issue with that. But I don’t see how that translates to ‘the gym should provide a way for me to do every single exercise I can possibly imagine, and if they don’t they’re breaking the law’. The makeshift lat pulldowns that the OP has described are basically a made-up exercise that the gym has determined to be too dangerous and neither he\* nor anybody else \*is allowed to do them. How is that discriminatory? It sounds like the standard lat pulldown machine cannot be reasonably adapted to allow him to use it. Presumably that is also true of other machines in the gym. Surely it isn’t the expectation that every single machine be usable by every single client no matter what their physical limitations? > > So what’s the problem exactly? The gym isn’t allowing someone to dangle dangerously from their equipment while they wait for the inevitable lawsuit when he injures himself or someone nearby? Or the gym refuses to buy special equipment only wanted by a small number of people (possibly only one person)? Neither of those seem like punishable offences to me. Please respond to the above, **Jamie**. > [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I was performing it at an advanced level, and it was a source of inspiration to others watching me do it. Oh God. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/52 "2011-08-25T05:52:15Z")
And “handicap-accessible” exercise equipment doesn’t refer to equipment which I can merely go up and _ **attempt** _ to use. It is not “access” in the barest of terms. Handicap accessible exercise equipment is equipment that disabled individuals can use in the proper fashion. ---
**Author:** ![wedgehed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8edcca/32.png) [@wedgehed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wedgehed)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/53 "2011-08-25T05:52:22Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I will just try to say this: I _ **never** _ had access to a lat-pulldown machine/equipment in all of the years I trained at HHFC. When you say you never had access, do you mean that the machine was located where you could not approach it, or the machine’s design prevented you from using it? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/54 "2011-08-25T05:56:53Z")
> [@wedgehed](#): > > When you say you never had access, do you mean that the machine was located where you could not approach it, or the machine’s design prevented you from using it? HHFC never provided handicap-accessible lat-pulldown equipment (sorry for the confusion) ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/55 "2011-08-25T05:59:42Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Please respond to the above, **Jamie**. > > Oh God. No, I am NOT going to respond the above. _ **I ALREADY HAVE.** _ Go back and please read my recent posts in this thread. I have answered this already. Thoroughly. ---
**Author:** ![wedgehed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8edcca/32.png) [@wedgehed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wedgehed)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/56 "2011-08-25T06:04:04Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > HHFC never provided handicap-accessible lat-pulldown equipment > (sorry for the confusion) Once again for us wedgeheds…is it the machine’s design or location? (sorry for still being confused) ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/57 "2011-08-25T06:07:45Z")
If I would have had the ability to use a lat-pulldown machine, I never would have begun performing the wheelchair-pullups in the first place. I never had the ability, due to the fact that HHFC never provided handicap accessible equipment, to use any sort of lat pulldown machine/equipment. There was no way to simply modify the existing machines to allow me to use them properly, _ **believe me** _, I tried everything and then some. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/58 "2011-08-25T06:08:49Z")
> [@wedgehed](#): > > Once again for us wedgeheds…is it the machine’s design or location? > > (sorry for still being confused) Sorry, design. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/59 "2011-08-25T08:13:03Z")
I found a [lat machine](http://www.pulsefit.com/) that is wheelchair accessible. Where you might run afoul of is that there are exemptions in the ADA dealing with the cost of a business to comply. I think the term is undue hardship. No price on the above linked machine but a quick search looks like gym quality (regular) machines run 1,500 to over 3,000. Maybe buying one machine won’t trigger it but if your claim is that none of the gym’s machines are accessible, that could run high enough be a factor. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/60 "2011-08-25T11:55:15Z")
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