# Slipped under the radar?? \[About me getting kicked out of gym\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 24, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872 "2011-08-24T05:16:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/101 "2011-08-26T20:19:51Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > This is true. “Handicap accessible” in terms of exercise equipment, means that a person with disabilities can use the equipment in the proper, safe manner in which it was intended. The idea that every single piece of equipment in a gym must have a “mirror-image” version accessible for the disabled is not true. There are versatile machines, like a Cybex, that can be used in the place of many non-accessible machines/equipment (such as a standard lat-pulldown machine). This one piece of equipment could serve as the “handicap-access” to much of what a gym must offer the disabled population. Something such as this could take care of several pieces of non-accessible exercise equipment in one piece. > **[Redirect Notice](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CGQQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.precor.com%2Fproducts%2Fen%2Fadjustable-cable-crossover-407b&ei=mv9XTtGwN8fj0QHjiOXDDA&usg=AFQjCNEy1hJgvgOKImGkCfRBIPsPA1g-2Q)** ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/102 "2011-08-26T20:36:06Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Something such as this could take care of several pieces of non-accessible exercise equipment in one piece. > > [Redirect Notice](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CGQQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.precor.com%2Fproducts%2Fen%2Fadjustable-cable-crossover-407b&ei=mv9XTtGwN8fj0QHjiOXDDA&usg=AFQjCNEy1hJgvgOKImGkCfRBIPsPA1g-2Q) Or better yet, something like this… [http://www.fitnesscor.com/topetr.html](http://www.fitnesscor.com/topetr.html) ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/103 "2011-08-26T21:53:03Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > This one piece of equipment could serve as the “handicap-access” to much of what a gym must offer the disabled population. Must? Says who? The law you’re referencing 1) is not even a law yet. And 2) once passed, it doesn’t say what you think it says. Why don’t you save up some of your settlement money, or get a job (or a better job, I can’t remember for sure whether you already have one but I don’t think so), and buy one for yourself to use in your home? IIRC you took the settlement payments over time, so this is still an option. Drop the frivolous suit, this is a complete pipe dream. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/104 "2011-08-26T21:59:52Z")
I’ve edited the thread title so that it’s more descriptive. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/105 "2011-08-26T22:18:38Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > This is true. “Handicap accessible” in terms of exercise equipment, means that a person with disabilities can use the equipment in the proper, safe manner in which it was intended. The idea that every single piece of equipment in a gym must have a “mirror-image” version accessible for the disabled is not true. There are versatile machines, like a Cybex, that can be used in the place of many non-accessible machines/equipment (such as a standard lat-pulldown machine). This one piece of equipment could serve as the “handicap-access” to much of what a gym must offer the disabled population. But it’s moot anyways since the Safe Harbor Act (Act? Law? Guideline? I’m not sure, it just says Safe Harbor) doesn’t say Handicap Accessible it only says that they “must remove architectural barriers to elements.” Did you ever talk to them about bringing in this kind of equipment? Did you do some research, find some other gyms that have them that they could talk to to see how it’s working out for them? Maybe even go the extra mile and find some used ones that they could potentially buy from another gym. Keep an eye on Craigslist, maybe someone is selling one for a couple hundred dollars that you could purchase and keep in your garage (or donate/sell to the gym or trade in for a free membership for a few months). You could see if anyone else would have any interest in them (handicapped or otherwise) and if there’s enough support maybe then they would consider it. BTW, did you ever actually read the Safe Harbor Requirements? I mean, you cut and pasted it, and you obviously missed the date, but I’m guessing you also missed the other part where it says all they have to do is provide you with the ability to physically get to the machines, they have no legal requirement (at least not WRT Safe Harbor) to purchase equipment that someone in a wheel chair can use, but you seem to be under that impression. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/106 "2011-08-26T22:34:00Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > But it’s moot anyways since the Safe Harbor Act (Act? Law? Guideline? I’m not sure, it just says Safe Harbor) doesn’t say Handicap Accessible it only says that they “must remove architectural barriers to elements.” > > Did you ever talk to them about bringing in this kind of equipment? Did you do some research, find some other gyms that have them that they could talk to to see how it’s working out for them? Maybe even go the extra mile and find some used ones that they could potentially buy from another gym. Keep an eye on Craigslist, maybe someone is selling one for a couple hundred dollars that you could purchase and keep in your garage (or donate/sell to the gym or trade in for a free membership for a few months). You could see if anyone else would have any interest in them (handicapped or otherwise) and if there’s enough support maybe then they would consider it. > BTW, did you ever actually read the Safe Harbor Requirements? I mean, you cut and pasted it, and you obviously missed the date, but I’m guessing you also missed the other part where it says all they have to do is provide you with the ability to physically get to the machines, they have no legal requirement (at least not WRT Safe Harbor) to purchase equipment that someone in a wheel chair can use, but you seem to be under that impression. Being able to “physically get to” the machine, is not “going up to and touching” the machine, but being able to physically use it. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. It is completely _ **ludicrous** _ to make the argument that a piece of exercise equipment is “handicap accessible” merely if a handicap individual can successfully _approach and touch_ the machine. What the hell kind of sense would that make? Use your brain. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/107 "2011-08-26T22:45:57Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Being able to “physically get to” the machine, is not “going up to and touching” the machine, but being able to physically use it. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. It is completely _ **ludicrous** _ to make the argument that a piece of exercise equipment is “handicap accessible” merely if a handicap individual can successfully _approach and touch_ the machine. What the hell kind of sense would that make? Use your brain. Your beef isn’t with me, it isn’t with the health club, it’s with the ADA, take it out on them. One more time, here’s the quote “Therefore, on or after March 15, 2012, public accommodations must remove architectural barriers to elements” Now, you quote the relevant part of the law WHICH YOU HAVE NOT DONE YET, that says the are required to purchase a lat-pulldown machine that accommodates a wheelchair…I’ll wait. C’mon, I want to see what law this is that you plan to sue them for violating. ---
**Author:** ![inkling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkling)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/108 "2011-08-26T22:51:54Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Being able to “physically get to” the machine, is not “going up to and touching” the machine, but being able to physically use it. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. It is completely _ **ludicrous** _ to make the argument that a piece of exercise equipment is “handicap accessible” merely if a handicap individual can successfully _approach and touch_ the machine. What the hell kind of sense would that make? Use your brain. I agree that that is a very common understanding of accessibility - but **what does the law actually require?** From what others have posted, it seems that the law will require architectural elements preventing access to be removed, but I haven’t seen a citation of a law requiring that all machines be usable by disabled persons. Yes, the law is ludicrous sometimes - this is so well known as to almost be not worth commenting on. On the other hand, how does it make more sense to require every singe exercise machine sold to be accessible? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/109 "2011-08-26T22:52:00Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Being able to “physically get to” the machine, is not “going up to and touching” the machine, but being able to physically use it. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. It is completely _ **ludicrous** _ to make the argument that a piece of exercise equipment is “handicap accessible” merely if a handicap individual can successfully _approach and touch_ the machine. What the hell kind of sense would that make? Use your brain. So you really think that the law states that each and every machine they have must be usable by you? Have fun with that. Try to make sure it’s usable by **blinkie** too. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/110 "2011-08-26T22:55:11Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Being able to “physically get to” the machine, is not “going up to and touching” the machine, but being able to physically use it. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. It is completely _ **ludicrous** _ to make the argument that a piece of exercise equipment is “handicap accessible” merely if a handicap individual can successfully _approach and touch_ the machine. What the hell kind of sense would that make? Use your brain. Also, the Safe Harbor rules aren’t about making exercise machines handicap accessible…but from what I gather, you haven’t actually read the rules…THAT’S why your case is frivolous. Plain and simple. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/111 "2011-08-26T22:57:29Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > So you really think that the law states that each and every machine they have must be usable by you? Have fun with that. Try to make sure it’s usable by **blinkie** too. ;););)😉 ;);)😉 What’s that? ;);)😉😉 ;););)😉 He says he’s not really concerned about it. 😉 ;);)😉 ;);)😉 ;);););)😉 ;)😉 And don’t drag him into this. ;);)😉 ;)😉 No problem, anytime. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/112 "2011-08-26T23:08:12Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > So you really think that the law states that each and every machine they have must be usable by you? Have fun with that. Try to make sure it’s usable by **blinkie** too. No! I never said _ **each and every machine** _ had to be usable by **me**. I said they must offer some form of accessible exercise equipment (like I’ve said, many times one versatile piece can handle all of it) for all of the equipment/machines of a non-accessible nature. For example, a standard bench-press is considered non-accessible. So is a lat-pulldown machine. A versatile, adjustable precor-trainer (with cables and detachable handles) could serve as an accessible version of pretty much every single non-accessible piece of equipment in HHFC. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/113 "2011-08-26T23:10:54Z")
We’re going to make this really easy. Can I suggest this thread quiets down until we get an answer… > [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > they must offer some form of accessible exercise equipment Cite? (Edit…Boy, if there was ever an appropriate place to use that) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/114 "2011-08-26T23:45:44Z")
[That’s what I thought.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14188230&postcount=18) ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/115 "2011-08-27T00:02:26Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > No! I never said _ **each and every machine** _ had to be usable by **me**. I said they must offer some form of accessible exercise equipment (like I’ve said, many times one versatile piece can handle all of it) for all of the equipment/machines of a non-accessible nature. For example, a standard bench-press is considered non-accessible. So is a lat-pulldown machine. A versatile, adjustable precor-trainer (with cables and detachable handles) could serve as an accessible version of pretty much every single non-accessible piece of equipment in HHFC. I am overweight and have bad knees, which make it difficult for me to use many types of cardiac equipment, such as stair-climbers, treadmills, and exercise bikes. As part of my current weight loss program I discussed with my doctor various options for increasing the amount of exercise I get, and he suggested that a recumbent exercise bike would be my best choice. Now, I have never seen one of these in any gym, although they are readily available (I purchased one for myself through Amazon for under $300). If I were to join a gym, would I be within my rights to demand that they acquire one for my use? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/116 "2011-08-27T00:15:31Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > I am overweight and have bad knees, which make it difficult for me to use many types of cardiac equipment, such as stair-climbers, treadmills, and exercise bikes. As part of my current weight loss program I discussed with my doctor various options for increasing the amount of exercise I get, and he suggested that a recumbent exercise bike would be my best choice. Now, I have never seen one of these in any gym, although they are readily available (I purchased one for myself through Amazon for under $300). If I were to join a gym, would I be within my rights to demand that they acquire one for my use? In 6 months when Jaime’s Law of 2011 goes into effect last week, yes as long as you have a handicap placard you can require the health club to buy any equipment to suit your needs. So, next to the regular bikes, they’ll have a stationary bike and for Mrs. Smith with only one leg, they’ll get her a special bike that will propel the pedal through the upstroke…and John lost his fingers in a lawnmowing accident and can’t use the grips, so the gym will have to purchase a special harness to keep him on the seat. Also, Mr Georgio has an interesting handicap in that his knees actually bend _backwards_. The health club is in talks with Precor and the Disney Immagineers to come up with something for him. The health club is only expecting to be in business for another few weeks before it runs out of funds. They’ve talked to their insurance agent to see if Building Ordinance Insurance will cover the purchase of the new equipment…no dice. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/117 "2011-08-27T00:43:52Z")
> [@inkling](#): > > On the other hand, how does it make more sense to require every singe exercise machine sold to be accessible? Accessible doesn’t mean what Jamie thinks it means. What the law will require is that ONE of each type of machine is required to be accessible both by route and clear floor space, but it is presumed in the general guidelines that the disabled person using the equipment is indeed able to use it. For example, a gym need not provide a person with no arms a way to do curls, or make a treadmill for people in wheelchairs. Access to the machines, yes, but no alterations to the machines are required. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/118 "2011-08-27T00:49:28Z")
So, Jamie, and I really do want an answer to this question, I’m not just tweaking your tail - say I open up a deli. And I sell sandwiches in that deli. I bake, too, so all my sandwiches have bread in them - I don’t have any non-bread options. Somebody with celiac disease comes in. Now, that’s a horrible disease to have. That person cannot, under any circumstances, eat my tasty bread. They demand that I offer breadless options. But I run a sandwich deli. Must I provide them a breadless option? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/119 "2011-08-27T00:55:00Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > So, Jamie, and I really do want an answer to this question, I’m not just tweaking your tail - say I open up a deli. And I sell sandwiches in that deli. I bake, too, so all my sandwiches have bread in them - I don’t have any non-bread options. > > Somebody with celiac disease comes in. Now, that’s a horrible disease to have. That person cannot, under any circumstances, eat my tasty bread. They demand that I offer breadless options. But I run a sandwich deli. > > Must I provide them a breadless option? Why? lettuce wraps are better. just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872/120 "2011-08-27T00:57:57Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > So, Jamie, and I really do want an answer to this question, I’m not just tweaking your tail - say I open up a deli. And I sell sandwiches in that deli. I bake, too, so all my sandwiches have bread in them - I don’t have any non-bread options. > > Somebody with celiac disease comes in. Now, that’s a horrible disease to have. That person cannot, under any circumstances, eat my tasty bread. They demand that I offer breadless options. But I run a sandwich deli. > > Must I provide them a breadless option? Why? Since it is the gluten which makes bread a no-no for those with celiac disease, you would be required to make [gluten-free bread](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten-free_diet#Gluten-free_bread) available for those customers who request it. You would also, of course, be required to provide dairy-free sandwiches for people like myself who are lactose-intolerant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slipped-under-the-radar-about-me-getting-kicked-out-of-gym/593872.md?page=7)