# Sloop John B.- what's it about, really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 24, 2002, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431 "2002-11-24T02:28:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/41 "2015-07-23T13:44:15Z")
It’s about drugs. All Sixties songs were about drugs. Happy now? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/42 "2015-07-23T14:11:43Z")
I notice that the Wikipedia page on _The John B Sails_ (the original song on which the Beach Boys version was ultimately based) makes no reference to a captain John Bethel or his ship, the solution **scottburlin** brought up recently. The song is traced no farther back than 1916, with no suggestion of when the Jphn B – if it actually existed – actually sailed. Some people suggest as far back as the 17th century, when a captain John Bethel evidently was around. That “everyone on Nassau” knows the origin , unfortunately, isn’t sufficient pedigree. In the absence of documentary proof, it’s like hearsay. For all we know, the song might date no further back than 1916, and be wholly fictional. Here’s another, weirder theory: > [@](#): > > Beach Boys meet George Romero? > > September 4, 2011 11:04 AM Subscribe > > Looking for some background I swear I read related the song “Sloop John B” to tales of ghost ships, zombies and other nautical/Caribbean folklore. > > “Sloop John B” is my all-time favorite Beach Boys song. I know a little bit about the history of the ditty — from Carl Sandburg to Alan Lomax — but in the course of my casual research I swear I read something referring to the eponymous vessel as a ghost ship, not unlike The Flying Dutchman. > > I also remember reading that the name of the ship is a bastardization of the word “zombie.” In the Caribbean, a “jumbee” is a spirit or demon, and that word looks and sounds a lot like “John B.” This would seem to support the ghost ship legend. > > However, I cannot for the life of me find this info online, and I know I didn’t come up with it on my own. So where the hell did I read this? > > Related: The tune was adapted by Will Sheff as a comment on John Berrymore’s suicide as described here. > > posted by carmicha at 11:27 AM on September 4, 2011 [1 favorite] > > I’m seeing a youtube (Google: “John B Sails Zombie”) that’s very close to your third paragraph. No attribution, though. > > posted by Leon at 11:49 AM on September 4, 2011 > > comment. youtube comment. Edit window, diamonds and rubies, etc. > > posted by Leon at 11:50 AM on September 4, 2011 > > It’s not the post at the bottom of this page? Found googling for “Sloop John B” +jumbee > > posted by bjrn at 12:52 PM on September 4, 2011 > > Leon, you nailed it. It’s the description on this video that I remember reading. Now if only I could find some more information on that theory. Thanks! > > posted by Brittanie at 1:15 PM on September 4, 2011 > > Berryman, not Barrymore. > > posted by Ideefixe at 1:23 PM on September 4, 2011 [2 favorites] > > Well, there does seem to have been a real John B – John Bethel, a Bahamian sea captain, who may or may not be the John Bethel who was an original settler, but in any case led to a long line of Bethels in the islands. It seems more likely to me that the eponymous sloop was named for him rather than by him, but Sandburg does seem convinced that there was such a ship by that name parts of which were recovered in 1926 (at Governor’s Harbour, which is on Eleuthera, not Nassau itself) – but I can’t find anything more substantive than that. (Which surprises me – I would have thought if there were substance to this, it would be a minor tourist attraction.) > > Even all that said, it would not be the first time that real history and folk belief have intersected in the form of a song. > **[Beach Boys meet George Romero?](https://ask.metafilter.com/195195/Beach-Boys-meet-George-Romero)** > > Looking for some background I swear I read related the song 'Sloop John B' to tales of ghost ships, zombies and other nautical/Caribbean folklore. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/43 "2015-07-23T15:00:53Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > By Brian Wilson, it would seem. He changed the lyric from the original “This is the worst trip since I’ve been born” to “This is the worst trip I’ve ever been on.” It is believed by many that this change was likely intended as a subtle reference to acid. Just sayin’. I have no proof. I think it’s extremely unlikely that this variant originated with Brian Wilson. “This is the worst trip I ever was on” is how the line appears in the book of folk songs I got when I was first learning guitar. Although the book was published in 1967 and so postdates the Beach Boys recording, the lyrics have enough small differences that they clearly are not copied from that version, and the book otherwise shows no rock influence–the version of “House of the Rising Sun,” for example, has very little in common with the Animals’ version. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/44 "2015-07-23T15:48:35Z")
Well, how good technically are the other lyrics? In other words, do they rhyme? Do they scan? Do they use obscure words? Could Burdon and The Animals have sung them intelligibly? ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/45 "2015-07-24T04:32:47Z")
Like others have said I’ve always thought it was pretty straight forward, the opening scene in a coming of age tale. The “grandfather and me” line frames the story. It’s sung from the point of view of a young’n from a sea faring family on his first real voyage. All this crazy sh#t happening. For him it’s wild, scandalous and undesirable. For grandpa, it’s business as usual. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/46 "2015-07-24T05:41:29Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > Like others have said I’ve always thought it was pretty straight forward, the opening scene in a coming of age tale. The “grandfather and me” line frames the story. It’s sung from the point of view of a young’n from a sea faring family on his first real voyage. All this crazy sh#t happening. For him it’s wild, scandalous and undesirable. For grandpa, it’s business as usual. Occam’s Razor, you know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![webgrunt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/48db29/32.png) [@webgrunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/webgrunt)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/47 "2016-03-21T17:06:45Z")
> **[Sloop John B](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_John_B._Sails)** > > "Sloop John B" (originally published as "The John B. Sails") is a Bahamian folk song from Nassau. A transcription by Richard Le Gallienne was published in 1916, and a version was included in Carl Sandburg's The American Songbag in 1927. Since the early 1950s there have been many recordings of the song with variant titles including "I Want to Go Home" and "Wreck of the John B". > In 1966, American rock band the Beach Boys recorded a folk rock adaptation that was produced and arranged by their de f... “The John B. Sails” is a Bahamian folk song from Nassau. A transcription by Richard Le Gallienne was published in 1916, and a version was included in Carl Sandburg’s _The American Songbag_ in 1927. Since the early 1950s there have been many recordings; variant titles include “I Want to Go Home”, “Wreck of the John B”, and “Sloop John B”. The song was transcribed by Richard Le Gallienne, with five verses and the chorus published in his article “Coral Islands and Mangrove-Trees” in the December 1916 issue of Harper’s Monthly Magazine (pp. 81–90). The first two verses and chorus were also published in Chapter IV of Gallienne’s 1917 novel Pieces of Eight. As others have noted, it’s probably pretty literal. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/48 "2016-03-21T17:24:08Z")
All I know is, my grandfather would’ve been bursting with pride had I gotten liquored up and gotten into a drunken brawl. I think my more cerebral nature was a disappointment to him. ☹ Too bad he didn’t live another 10 years or so to see me as a Marine. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/49 "2016-03-21T17:50:11Z")
Your grandfather may have read \*Outlines of History, \* particularly Page 1005 (of the 1921 edition, at least), where Wells quoted Friedrich Nietzsche on war. ---
**Author:** ![Tamarind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b3f665/32.png) [@Tamarind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamarind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/50 "2018-10-30T21:51:01Z")
This is in response to and ScottBurlin and Calmeacham’s posts: The folk song John B Sails later known as Sloop John B made famous by the Beach Boys has truly been a Bahamian folk song for at least 100 years. Scott must have stayed at our family home; Tamarind in Governor’s Harbour Eleuthera. Our parents bought Tamarind over 40 years ago and my brother and I still own and run it. Tamarind has had only 4 owners in it’s 140+ years of existence. The original builder and owner was the Sea Captain John B (Bethel) who built Tamarind in the mid to late 1870’s as a wedding present for his wife during the time that Cupids Cay (off of Governors Harbour) was the original capitol of the Bahamas. At that time there was no bridge connecting the mainland to the Cay just sailing vessels beam to beam bridging the divide. John Bethel built his Sloop John B in our back yard and ran it on skids down into the harbor. John B was outlived by his wife who remained at Tamarind until she died in I believe the late 1920s or early 1930. Our maid who was with us for many decades clearly remember the Widow Bethel who lived at the Sea Captain’s home. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![Tamarind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b3f665/32.png) [@Tamarind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamarind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/51 "2018-10-30T21:53:26Z")
This is in response to and ScottBurlin and Calmeacham’s posts: The folk song John B Sails later known as Sloop John B made famous by the Beach Boys has truly been a Bahamian folk song for at least 100 years. Scott must have stayed at our family home; Tamarind in Governor’s Harbour Eleuthera. Our parents bought Tamarind over 40 years ago and my brother and I still own and run it. Tamarind has had only 4 owners in it’s 140+ years of existence. The original builder and owner was the Sea Captain John B (Bethel) who built Tamarind in the mid to late 1870’s as a wedding present for his wife during the time that Cupids Cay (off of Governors Harbour) was the original capitol of the Bahamas. At that time there was no bridge connecting the mainland to the Cay just sailing vessels beam to beam bridging the divide. John Bethel built his Sloop John B in our back yard and ran it on skids down into the harbor. John B was outlived by his wife who remained at Tamarind until she died in I believe the late 1920s or early 1930. Our maid who was with us for many decades clearly remember the Widow Bethel who lived at the Sea Captain’s home. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/52 "2018-10-30T22:27:47Z")
[Best version.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0XjbAAso0) ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/53 "2018-11-01T01:41:54Z")
Ah, Joseph Spence. Of the famous [I Bid You Goodnight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65jQXHIwy00). ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/54 "2018-11-01T01:52:19Z")
This thing has been revived about ten times. I seem to have missed it almost every time. But I am pleased as I can be to see that **Ukulele Ike** was being a smartass as long ago as 2002 (post8). Keep up the good work, King of the Dopers. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431/55 "2018-11-01T05:24:21Z")
The apparent fact that there was a real John B who built a real boat, does not in any way show (or even hint) that the song is based on real events. It could very easily be a fantasy song based on nothing, using the names of real people and places just for fun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloop-john-b-whats-it-about-really/138431.md?page=2)