# Sloppy foreign words/phrases in books **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 29, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034 "2012-01-29T00:03:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/1 "2012-01-29T00:03:32Z")
Was reading Stephen King’s latest book, and came across the place where he has one of the characters say something in Russian. Except he completely screws the words up (He has the character say to his wife “Pokhoda, cyka”, which he translates as “Walk, bitch”, except there is no word “Pokhoda” in Russian, it should have been “Eedee” or “Poshla”, and “cyka” can be translated as “bitch”, but if written in latin latters and not Cyrillic, it should be “suka”, and writing it in Cyrillic doesn’t make sense since the previous pseudo-Russian word isn’t in Cyrillic). This is not the first time I see it - big time authors, and presumably big-time editors who don’t care to do elementary checking on the foreign words they put into the books. Not just Russian - I have seen it with Hebrew and Arabic as well, and I am sure there were places where I didn’t catch it because I don’t know the language. Why is that? True, not THAT many Russian-speakers will read King in English, but it’s still just sloppy and unprofessional. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/2 "2012-01-29T01:04:12Z")
I just came across this with an Italian phrase recently. It was just in a crappy mystery novel, but a big publisher (Fawcett) and it really took me out of the book. I can see it if you’re using words in an obscure language, but Russian or Italian? For “Pokhoda,” he probably mean “походи,” which his dictionary will have informed him is the imperative of походить. Why he wouldn’t make more of an effort to get it right, I can’t imagine. Laziness? ETA: I meant both the correct form and the correct idiom. I don’t think Russians say “походи, сука,” though Google translate renders it as “hike, bitch.” ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/3 "2012-01-29T02:21:23Z")
I think its because there aren’t really proffreaders anymore. They rely on spell check, which lets the proper spelling of a word trump the use of the word. I’m one of those sort of people who would love to get paid to read books and make red marks to correct mistakes. I can’t do that, but one of the fun things I can do with ebooks is change roll to role for my copy. It satisfies my urge to proof my copy. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/4 "2012-01-29T02:35:55Z")
Moving from MPSIMS to CS. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/5 "2012-01-29T06:35:21Z")
In “Clear and Present Danger”, Clancy had one Israeli soldier say “mazal tov” to another before the latter went out on a mission. Now, “mazal tov” may \*literally \*translate as “good luck”, but what it \*means \*is “congratulations” (“good luck” would be “bihatzlacha”). I think that’s the point I started losing respect for Clancy as a writer - if he couldn’t get the details right, what good was he? It’s not as if I was reading him for his prose. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/6 "2012-01-29T06:47:39Z")
I see it with Urdu/Hindi at all times. I have also seen muslim character drop \ at the most inopportune moments. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/7 "2012-01-29T06:53:33Z")
I’m reading a book by Joseph O’Connor that has an American family in New York pulling [Christmas crackers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_cracker). It’s a good book but that’s really pulled me out of the narrative. It’s just such a basic mistake and I can’t believe nobody spotted it. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/8 "2012-01-29T07:00:06Z")
> [@flatlined](#): > > I think its because there aren’t really proffreaders anymore. Gaudere’s Law strikes again 😛 Seriously, though… this has been the norm for a long time now. The Japanese used in Clavell’s _Shogun_, for example, was atrocious. I think publishers know that the percentage of people who notice is minimal and as such don’t really care. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/9 "2012-01-29T07:02:32Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I’m reading a book by Joseph O’Connor that has an American family in New York pulling [Christmas crackers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_cracker). It’s a good book but that’s really pulled me out of the narrative. It’s just such a basic mistake and I can’t believe nobody spotted it. I always had a similar to reaction to the Judge Dredd stories I read. The characters may be American, but they sure act British at times. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/10 "2012-01-29T07:11:36Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I’m reading a book by Joseph O’Connor that has an American family in New York pulling [Christmas crackers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_cracker). It’s a good book but that’s really pulled me out of the narrative. It’s just such a basic mistake and I can’t believe nobody spotted it. Do you think those are unheard of in America? It’s not common, but it wouldn’t be impossible. If the family is in NYC it’s even more likely in that great cultural melting pot. We got ours at the Target this year, and find them at various locations each season. ETA: Most books in English are aimed at the massive amount of people who aren’t fluent in any other language. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/11 "2012-01-29T07:24:27Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Do you think those are unheard of in America? It’s not common, but it wouldn’t be impossible. If the family is in NYC it’s even more likely in that great cultural melting pot. We got ours at the Target this year, and find them at various locations each season. Well fair enough, but their use surely would be pretty unusual. The author doesn’t remark on the all-American family’s adoption of a foreign tradition, and there’s also a non-familial character in the Christmas dinner scene (where they’re also eating turkey, which I gather is more a Thanksgiving thing) who doesn’t remark on this slightly unusual custom. Here’s another one: a teacher at a US high school recalling a student saying “What good’s poetry going to be on a resume, Miss?” Maybe I’m wrong, but I just don’t hear a high school student in the States calling their teacher “miss”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/12 "2012-01-29T07:24:27Z")
There was a mystery series set in Ireland where they kept referring to the _Taioseach_ or some similar misspelling of _Taoiseach_. It was repeated in several books; clearly, someone at the publisher had added it manually, but incorrectly, to a dictionary. A pretty obscure word in the US (it means “Prime Minister”), but still. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/13 "2012-01-29T07:36:34Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Well fair enough, but their use surely would be pretty unusual. The author doesn’t remark on the all-American family’s adoption of a foreign tradition, and there’s also a non-familial character in the Christmas dinner scene (where they’re also eating turkey, which I gather is more a Thanksgiving thing) who doesn’t remark on this slightly unusual custom. > > Here’s another one: a teacher at a US high school recalling a student saying “What good’s poetry going to be on a resume, Miss?” > > Maybe I’m wrong, but I just don’t hear a high school student in the States calling their teacher “miss”. Depends which state. But it’s more likely the style of Miss Katherine than just Miss. I agree these incongruities would bother someone who knew better. I just didn’t know if you were aware that us hillbillies might know what a Christmas Cracker was. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/14 "2012-01-29T08:00:46Z")
I should mention that the book is set in 1994 too. The state is New York, specifically Manhattan (because all Americans either live there or on in the desert). > [@TriPolar](#): > > I just didn’t know if you were aware that us hillbillies might know what a Christmas Cracker was. My friend, there’s no need to get defensive. I’ve lived in the US several times, over Christmas too, and have known hundreds of Americans, and nobody I ever met in CT, TX or TN, knew WTF they were. My parents’ introduction of their imported crackers to their (university professorial) guests at a Christmas drinks party was met with the puzzlement and childish delight of people who were being introduced to a silly novelty. Regardless, I think an Irish writer showing an American family indulging in a custom that is widely practised in Ireland but not widely practised in the US, without explaining it, makes him look like he hasn’t done his research. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/15 "2012-01-29T08:54:41Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I should mention that the book is set in 1994 too. The state is New York, specifically Manhattan (because all Americans either live there or on in the desert). Around 1991 I was at Heathrow on a long delay waiting to get home. A young man serving me food at a US theme restaurant asked me where I lived. When I said New York he turned pale (as best as an Englishman can). He couldn’t believe anybody would live there with all the murders. I tried to explain the part about living upstate, not in NYC, and how it wasn’t all that difficult to avoid being shot in NYC. He didn’t seem to be buying it. > [@](#): > > My friend, there’s no need to get defensive. Actually that was more like offensive. No worries. It wasn’t serious. > [@](#): > > I’ve lived in the US several times, over Christmas too, and have known hundreds of Americans, and nobody I ever met in CT, TX or TN, knew WTF they were. My parents’ introduction of their imported crackers to their (university professorial) guests at a Christmas drinks party was met with the puzzlement and childish delight of people who were being introduced to a silly novelty. Ignorance is only slightly unexpected in Connecticut. In Texas and Tennessee I’d be surprised if they knew how to properly use indoor plumbing\*. But Christmas Crackers are found everywhere. > [@](#): > > Regardless, I think an Irish writer showing an American family indulging in a custom that is widely practised in Ireland but not widely practised in the US, without explaining it, makes him look like he hasn’t done his research. Again I agree, except in many cases it makes no difference. In the case of the OP, it’s just a matter of translation. Stephen King shouldn’t be expected to be fluent in Russian, and the lack of editing has been covered already. But the case you cite, where the scene was so removed from reality, would be disconcerting to me. I assume it was an English language book, so it wouldn’t be uncommon to find readers who had a little more knowledge about US culture. \*That’s a joke folks. Most people in Tennessee have experienced a flush toilet by now. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/16 "2012-01-29T09:46:47Z")
Well in the case of seemingly out of place customs, real life doesn’t make perfect sense you know? People have friends and family who can introduce them to foreign customs and foods and can then adopt them, would you demand an explanation for a family in Mexico city eating lutefisk? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/17 "2012-01-29T09:52:16Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Well in the case of seemingly out of place customs, real life doesn’t make perfect sense you know? > People have friends and family who can introduce them to foreign customs and foods and can then adopt them, would you demand an explanation for a family in Mexico city eating lutefisk? I’d demand an explanation for anybody eating fish soap. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/18 "2012-01-29T10:02:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’d demand an explanation for anybody eating fish soap. LOL! I am from Texas and love rollmops, they were introduced to me by my dad who came to love them after being introduced to them by my maternal grandmother. I’m sure most people have similar habits and tastes that defy geography. > **[Rollmops](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollmops)** > > Rollmops (listenⓘ) are pickled herring fillets, rolled into a cylindrical shape, often around a savoury filling. > The filling usually consists of onion and sliced pickled gherkin. Rollmops are often skewered with a cocktail skewer. > Rollmops are usually bought ready-to-eat, in jars or tubs. The brine additionally consists of water, white vinegar, and salt; it may also contain sugar or other sweetening agents, onion rings, peppercorns and mustard seeds. Rollmops can be eaten cold, without unrollin... ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/19 "2012-01-29T11:09:43Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Actually that was more like offensive. No worries. It wasn’t serious. We cool. > [@grude](#): > > People have friends and family who can introduce them to foreign customs and foods and can then adopt them, would you demand an explanation for a family in Mexico city eating lutefisk? It’s a work of fiction. If someone writes a work of fiction that has a family in Mexico city eating lutefisk, then yes, the reader is going to [want to know why](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun). Now the teacher is talking about how her entire class of high school kids is crazy for the Britpop band Oasis. Now I know Oasis made some headway into the US, and it _could_ be that an entire class of kids in New York is into it, but surely in 1994 it would more likely be Nirvana or some other grunge band that people would have been into - particularly an entire class of them. Anyway, one minor cultural aberration is OK, but I’m getting a cumulative effect from this book that says “didn’t do the research”. Which is a shame, because otherwise O’Connor is a fantastic writer. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034/20 "2012-01-29T14:22:45Z")
And another one: is it normal for an educated American in New York to refer to old people as “pensioners”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sloppy-foreign-words-phrases-in-books/611034.md?page=2)