Slowing gun violence without using gun control/elimination

[Lubricious_Integument]

I have another thought but I’m not sure how it will stand against gun control arguments.

Every gun in the United States should be uniquely identifiable and registered to an owner. Given that gun ownership is a right, not a privilege, this may run afoul of 2nd amendment arguments. Let’s proceed anyway.

You are personally responsible for any damages caused by the use of guns registered to you. Medical bills can hit the $100K+ range in a hurry. Be careful with those things.

If your gun was stolen, you had better report the theft and unregister that gun before your stolen stolen is used in a crime. That’s the responsibility of gun ownership. Do you remember the old ads “It is 10pm. Do you know where your kids are?” We could just as well run ads that ask “It is 10pm. Do you know where your guns are?”

If you commit a crime in possession of an unregistered gun you go to jail forever.

There will be plenty of room once we let non-violent drug abusers out en masse. Fill the jails with people who actually pose a threat to society.

[HurricaneDitka]

@Lubricious_Integument

… If you commit a crime in possession of an unregistered gun you go to jail forever. …

This would almost certainly have a very disparate impact on different racial groups. Are you comfortable with that?

[Lubricious_Integument]

The problem is that universal gun registration doesn’t currently exist, so the transformation will certainly take time. I don’t know when the deadline for the no tolerance policy should begin, nor how different groups will be affected.

[carnivorousplant]

@HurricaneDitka

This would almost certainly have a very disparate impact on different racial groups. Are you comfortable with that?

Surely. Would you give a “get out of jail” ticket to a group of people because of their race?

[Little_Nemo]

@UltraVires

I agree. The problem with anti-bullying initiatives is that children grow up without learning how to deal with bullies and instead rely on the teachers to do it for them. Bullies are wimps. Pop them once in the nose and they will find someone else to screw with. We all learned that in the 80s/90s, but today that is frowned upon.

The fact that bullies are wimps means they’re not interested in a fair fight. Bullies pick on people who are smaller and weaker than them. If bullies want to pick on somebody who isn’t small or weak, they’ll make sure that they bring along two or three fellow bullies so they’ve got a numerical advantage. So punching back at somebody in those circumstances is just going to get you beat up. And it will mark you as somebody they’ll want to keep targeting in the future.

[Little_Nemo]

@Abatis

I’m all for controlling the hand that uses the gun . . .

1. Enforce with vigor laws criminalizing the violent misuse of firearms; don’t use weapons offenses as bargaining chips to be thrown out for guilty pleas for other charges and never allow the pleading down of felony gun charges to misdemeanors and no accelerated dispensation with expungement for gun offenses.

2. Mandate full time sentenced to be served for any violent misuse of a firearm.

3. Mandatory enhanced sentences for repeat offenders / felon in possession.

4. Absolutely, finally, mandate states and all federal agencies who adjudicate, to flag all 922(g) prohibited persons (including all qualifying mental issues - HIPPA be damned). and this be reported every other week to the FBI NICS and all states – with civil action exposure and criminal liability for dereliction of this duty.

5. Increase funding for parole/probation programs for enforcement of conditions of release and tightening of controls on those under conditional release and oversight of the boards responsible for early release.

6. Increase funding for states / cities for FTA & fugitive recovery with a priority on violent offenders.

.

I don’t really think this would have much of an effect. People like to believe that prisons are a revolving door but that’s not true for serious crimes. The people who go in and out of prison are the ones getting arrested for crimes like dealing drugs or theft or maybe minor assault. If you get convicted of murdering somebody, you’re generally going to be put away for a long time.

What percentage of people who are arrested for murder have been previously arrested for murder? I looked online and I couldn’t find it but I have a feeling it’s a very low number - maybe around one or two percent of murders are committed by people who have a history of murder convictions.

That means if you took everyone who was convicted of murder and locked them up for the rest of their life (or executed them) you’d only reduce the overall murder rate by that one or two percent.

[Czarcasm]

@UltraVires

I agree. The problem with anti-bullying initiatives is that children grow up without learning how to deal with bullies and instead rely on the teachers to do it for them. Bullies are wimps. Pop them once in the nose and they will find someone else to screw with. We all learned that in the 80s/90s, but today that is frowned upon.

This is absolute crap that got a lot of kids hurt. Bullies are bullies because they have no trouble whatsoever beating the crap out of others at the slightest provocation.

[tomndebb]

Enough with the discussion of “gun control” laws. The OP asked for other options to reduce gun violence.

[ /Moderating ]

[tomndebb]

@UltraVires

I agree. The problem with anti-bullying initiatives is that children grow up without learning how to deal with bullies and instead rely on the teachers to do it for them. Bullies are wimps. Pop them once in the nose and they will find someone else to screw with. We all learned that in the 80s/90s, but today that is frowned upon.

I am not sure what “we” you are addressing, but I have not found that to be universally true. I will agree that very many bullies are cowards, but I have known enough with other issues who would take a “pop in the nose” as a reason to simply go underground with their bullying. And approving a “pop in the nose” to someone who has not yet gone physical in their bullying simply gives the bully an excuse to retaliate and then accuse their victim of being the bully.

[Kent_Clark]

Here’s the average 2nd Amendment rights point of view:

Just enforce the laws already on the books!

[Sitnam]

@Kent_Clark

Here’s the average 2nd Amendment rights point of view:

Just enforce the laws already on the books!

Why aren’t they enforced? I wonder who would object to enforcing them?

[Little_Nemo]

@Kent_Clark

Here’s the average 2nd Amendment rights point of view:

Just enforce the laws already on the books!

What laws supposedly aren’t being enforced?

[DrDeth]

@puddleglum

Strawman purchases are already illegal, no need to change the law to go after them, only need to change level of proprietorial zeal.

But it’s hard to prove a strawman. Some guy buys 20 AR15s, then sells then off. Did he buy them for a person who couldnt buy a gun themselves? or did he buy them looking to make some bucks? The reason is critical. That’s why my law would make these underground dealers either register or go out of business.

[DrDeth]

@Brayne_Ded

Judging by the replies, no. And looking at the question, it’s an inherent problem when discussing the issue.
…I am surprised to read that a gun shop can sell a gun by default if the background check is not completed within 3 days, etc., and that the checks seem to be very perfunctory in some cases.

Gun control does not affect criminals, of course, since they use <gasp> illegal channels. …

My method would work, even the ATF sez so.

The background check goes to the FBI and it’s all automated, it shoudl take minutes, not days. There isnt some guy checking records.

Yes, and strawman sales are illegal and my method would make it easier for the ATF to stop them.

[DrDeth]

nm

[RTFirefly]

@Bryan_Ekers

For an off-the-wall idea, instead of trying to crack down on student bullying, why not encourage student fighting, i.e. the teacher says “if someone is bullying you, you have the right to defend yourself with physical but not deadly force.” You may get more fistfights but fewer shootings.

@UltraVires

I agree. The problem with anti-bullying initiatives is that children grow up without learning how to deal with bullies and instead rely on the teachers to do it for them. Bullies are wimps. Pop them once in the nose and they will find someone else to screw with. We all learned that in the 80s/90s, but today that is frowned upon.

My elementary and middle school days were >50 years ago, back in the days when you were on your own against bullies, so I certainly had the right to defend myself against bullies with physical force if they attacked me, and had as much option to pop them in the nose as they had to do the same thing to me.

The problem was, it was futile. There were no rules keeping me from defending myself; the problem was, they were bigger and stronger, and my efforts to fight back didn’t present a meaningful obstacle to them. I’d have loved to pop them on the nose, but I wasn’t able to.