# Small children and gender roles **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 1, 2009, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856 "2009-03-01T05:56:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JR\_Brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JR\_Brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JR_Brown)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/21 "2009-03-02T01:18:33Z")
> [@MissGypsy](#): > > It does seem to me that cartoon characters are more gender specific than they used to be, though. Bugs Bunny, Mickey Mouse, Casper the Friendly Ghost, and the other ancient ones that were in vogue back in the dark ages when I was a child, all seemed fairly neutral. But Bugs, Mickey and Casper are all actually male. Dora is a female character with top billing in her own show; how many female cartoon characters of the 40’s-50’s had that? Heck, how many female cartoon characters before the 1960’s can you even name? Olive Oyl, Minnie, Daisy, Petunia, Granny, “Mammy”, Betty Boop, Red Hot Riding Hood; mostly SO’s/foils/caretakers of male characters. Was Little Lulu ever on TV? ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/22 "2009-03-02T02:06:29Z")
Lulu had her own theatrical cartoons in the 40s. I don’t think she had her own TV show until the 90s. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/23 "2009-03-02T02:11:40Z")
Here’s an old thread you all may find interesting. It’s about someone who wouldn’t let her son be Dora for Halloween. > **[Let your boy be a girl for Halloween?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279591)** > > A former co-worker (FCW) of mine has a 3-year-old son. He decided he wanted to be Dora the Explorer for Halloween, because he just loves the show. FCW tried to distract him, suggest other ideas, and generally talk him out of it. Finally she just... > [@BetsQ](#): > > He explained that pink polish was for girls, but green polish like he had was for boys. Hee! I did the same thing. Green polish too. ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/24 "2009-03-02T04:33:29Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > It really irritates me that all the “stuff” there is for kids is so gender-specific. We went to get a play tent for my daughter, and our choices were Camo print and pink with butterflies. :rolleyes: In preschool, the kids really won’t notice or care…a lot of kids get attached to things that belong to an older sibling, so it’s not unusual to see kids with the wrong-gendered backpack, blankie, or whatever. > > My son is 2, and he’s always carrying around his big sister’s purses…that’s the age where they like to start carrying their stuff around with them, and they really don’t care what color the bag is! He has been dying for a Dora backpack (I made the mistake of buying a cheap Diego talking Rescue Pack from a friend, and for WEEKS, all he talked about was a Dora Backpack.). So a few months ago, I went on a weekend trip to NYC with girlfriends, and went into the giant Toys R Us (we had a gift card) to find ONE goddamn Dora backpack. I know it’s purple, but I didn’t give a shit. I was looking for the talking one (because God knows, we don’t have enough noisy shit laying around), but they didn’t have ONE. Not one, in that whole fucking store. So on the drive home, we stopped at a Toys R Us in Northern Virginia. Found a regular old plush Dora backpack, and he wears that thing EVERYWHERE. Loves it. But we go on treasure hunts with it - it has a Map, and that’s his latest, most favorite thing to do. I guess I’m lucky in that it really doesn’t bug my husband, either - and he’s definitely not a ‘sissy’, so it’s rather interesting that he doesn’t care, either. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/25 "2009-03-02T05:50:59Z")
> [@JR\_Brown](#): > > But Bugs, Mickey and Casper are all actually male. Dora is a female character with top billing in her own show; how many female cartoon characters of the 40’s-50’s had that? Heck, how many female cartoon characters before the 1960’s can you even name? Olive Oyl, Minnie, Daisy, Petunia, Granny, “Mammy”, Betty Boop, Red Hot Riding Hood; mostly SO’s/foils/caretakers of male characters. Was Little Lulu ever on TV? Exactly. The female characters were there for the main (male) characters to react to. The females rarely did anything interesting. Even when my daughter was young, and there were a few female main characters, they mostly did traditionally female things. I remember quite vividly that my daughter had a picture/storybook (I believe about Rainbow Brite, and where’s a puking smilie when you need one?) and the book was entirely about planning a tea party. While she was mildly interested in this one, she liked books with male characters better…not because she wanted to be a boy, but because the male characters actually had some exciting things to do, and problems to solve. When I was growing up, I loved superhero comic books. However, I was rather distressed that all the best superheroes were male. Sure, there was Superboy, but Superman was much better. Of course there was no Superwoman, or Batwoman, just Supergirl and Batgirl. Another thing about comic books of the time. Most of the women were distinguishable only because they had different hair color or styles. The artist drew just about every adult woman with the same body, unless of course it was an old woman. Men, though, got to have different bodies and faces. And they got to wear more clothing, too. ---
**Author:** ![Mesquite-oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@Mesquite-oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mesquite-oh)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/26 "2009-03-02T06:05:12Z")
My 18 month old son is not allowed to watch Dora, but for some reason he is deeply in love with that big headed annoying geekette. At this age, I wouldn’t be suprised if some of the other boys were envious of him and would want a blanket like his for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Hedda\_Rosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hedda_rosa/32/1204_2.png) [@Hedda\_Rosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hedda_Rosa)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/27 "2009-03-02T06:27:29Z")
Coincedentally, my 4 year old son, 6 year old daughter and I had a nail polish party tonight. It was the boy’s reward, at his request, to reward him for making it to the potty every time this weekend. (We’ve been having some timing issues.) He’s going to school tomorrow with alternating blue and pink fingernails. I don’t expect anyone to give a shit, and we don’t even go to that hippy-dippy school anymore. I now have Map’s theme song stuck in my head. Thanks for that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/28 "2009-03-02T09:39:54Z")
I teach psychology. Your kid is totally normal for that age. They like things for totally different reasons than you are projecting. Chill. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/29 "2009-03-02T10:48:35Z")
Re. kids vs grownup attitudes. Last year for his birthday (that is, a week before his little sister was born) my 3yo nephew got a baby-like doll. One of his great-aunts (a pox on her, or at least a painful yet nonthreatening case of mouth ulcers) exclaimed that it couldn’t be for him, since it was a girly thing. He said of course it was, she said it couldn’t, blahblah, and finally he said “ok, so she’s my sister’s but I’m taking care of her (the doll) for her (baby sis)!” For months The Nephew informed adults that he “is going to take care of sis’ doll” before taking it out to play. At some point he sneakily started informing his less-stupid grown-ups that he was actually going to play with it and it’s actually his, but “Aunt Laura is an idiot.” She sure is, kid, she sure is… (This is the same aunt who gave to SiL some pink booties with swaroski crystals forming hearts and who claimed that SiL couldn’t reuse her son’s old pajamas because, being red, they weren’t girly enough) ---
**Author:** ![Hokkaido\_Brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d26b3c/32.png) [@Hokkaido\_Brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hokkaido_Brit)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/30 "2009-03-02T10:59:31Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Hell, I’ve got pictures of my son as a toddler playing with my breast pump. He’s just imitating Mommy, no big deal. When my first son was nearly four the next one was born. First born had to get his doll, change its nappy when I changed the baby’s, give medicine and change bandages when I did (poor new babe got a staph infection that sloughed the skin off his hand and arm on day 8 of life…) and breast fed when I did. I pointed out that milk didn’t come out of boys’ boobies, but my son firmly told me that “Mine make milk because I’m a tough guy.” ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/31 "2009-03-02T17:18:00Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > I teach psychology. > Your kid is totally normal for that age. > They like things for totally different reasons than you are projecting. > Chill. Actually, I don’t think it’s necessarily needing to chill, I was curious about the experiences of other parents who’ve had kids at this age and how they handled gender stuff. But thanks for the oh-so-condescending ‘tip’ :rolleyes:. Oh, and **Hedda Rosa** , you’re welcome :p. My husband likes to randomly sing “Aahhh…rescue pack! Comin’ to the rescue!” because he has a death wish. Usually, he knows to run far, far away after he does it. 😃 [QUOTE=Mesquite-oh] My 18 month old son is not allowed to watch Dora, but for some reason he is deeply in love with that big headed annoying geekette. [/QUOTE] Does he go to daycare? Because the only thing we watched until he was about 2 was the Wiggles and limited Sesame Street (at daycare, on Friday afternoons, they did get one episode of Barney). But he knew who Dora was because every little girl in his daycare was a Dora FREAK. We walked in one morning when he was around 22 months old, he pointed to a backpack and yelled “I LOVE DORA!”. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/32 "2009-03-02T17:33:15Z")
> [@Elza\_B](#): > > I guess I’m lucky in that it really doesn’t bug my husband, either - and he’s definitely not a ‘sissy’, so it’s rather interesting that he doesn’t care, either. You know, my husband doesn’t care about that stuff, either, whatever makes the kid happy is fine with him. They’re really just babies, and what do they know? It’s not like you’re born knowing that pink is for girls! Personally, I find that the gender differences are much more obvious in behavior than what colors they like. And the thing about Dora is, there’s nothing about her that’s particularly girly. Hell, if she didn’t have that stupid haircut, you’d almost think she WAS a boy, so I’ve never been able to figure out why they market her so heavily towards girls. Diego’s all right, but the little kids don’t relate to him that much. My daughter has that plush Dora backpack, and both of the kids love it. At least it’s purple and not pink. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lunar\_elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lunar\_elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lunar_elf)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/33 "2009-03-02T17:39:20Z")
> [@Elza\_B](#): > > Because the only thing we watched until he was about 2 was the Wiggles and limited Sesame Street (at daycare, on Friday afternoons, they did get one episode of Barney). But he knew who Dora was because every little girl in his daycare was a Dora FREAK. We walked in one morning when he was around 22 months old, he pointed to a backpack and yelled “I LOVE DORA!”. :smack: Is that like the girls trying to get into the auto classes in high school, or the boys in the home ec (cooking/sewing etc) classes? 🙂 We have some stuffed Dilbert characters and our daughter enjoys playing with them, and another of her favorite toys is a wooden race car that she pushes around on any flat surface. Speaking of boys and playing dress up, we were at a holiday party and the hostess’ daughter had some Disney princess shoes that were totally popular with all the kids. The 2 twin boys in the group took over the pile, and they were hysterically crying when they had to leave the shoes at the end of the party. (They did look pretty cute!) ---
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/34 "2009-03-02T18:05:17Z")
My son, now 5, went through a serious “Dora” phase when he was 3-ish. Now he’s madly into Spongebob and Marvel superheros. He still demands that his mother paint his fingernails when she does her own, though. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/35 "2009-03-02T19:19:41Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Diego’s all right, but the little kids don’t relate to him that much. My 2.5-year-old niece does. She has a crush on Diego. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/36 "2009-03-02T19:39:05Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Exactly. The female characters were there for the main (male) characters to react to. The females rarely did anything interesting. The only female character from that era that I can think of who wasn’t just somebody for the males to react to (other than the previously mentioned Little Lulu) was Harvey Comics’ Little Audrey. She was the star of her own book, more than a bit of a tomboy, and usually the ringleader of the adventures she and her friends got into. Wendy the Witch (also from Harvey) was also pretty good about that, at least when she was on her own. When she was sharing billing with Casper the Friendly Ghost, he was usually the one driving the stories. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/37 "2009-03-02T21:25:09Z")
> [@Elza\_B](#): > > Anyone have a boy who preferred girly things as a toddler, or vice-versa with a little girl? For some reason, it seems like it’s more acceptable for a little girl to prefer boyish stuff than it is for little boys to want the girly stuff - why is that? You really need to ask? Even for little boys, it’s considered degrading. As much as people go on about boys and girls playing differently and ‘naturally’ gravitating towards certain toys and games, being around my friends’ babies and toddlers has made it pretty clear that gender roles get enforced from day one (actually, before they’re out of the womb, for some!) And, like the OP, these are open-minded people with lots of gay friends… and they still won’t let their sons play with dolls! ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/38 "2009-03-02T21:45:38Z")
> [@winterhawk11](#): > > The only female character from that era that I can think of who wasn’t just somebody for the males to react to (other than the previously mentioned Little Lulu) was Harvey Comics’ Little Audrey. She was the star of her own book, more than a bit of a tomboy, and usually the ringleader of the adventures she and her friends got into. Wendy the Witch (also from Harvey) was also pretty good about that, at least when she was on her own. When she was sharing billing with Casper the Friendly Ghost, he was usually the one driving the stories. I don’t remember Little Audrey or Wendy the Witch. I’m not saying that they didn’t exist, I just didn’t read those types of comics. I was much more into the superhero comics. I also didn’t like comics which had kids or teens as main characters, such as the Archie and Richie Rich comics. ---
**Author:** ![Wednesday\_Evening](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Wednesday\_Evening](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wednesday_Evening)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/39 "2009-03-03T01:25:03Z")
My 5-year-old son is really into Tinkerbell and the whole Disney Fairies thing. We went to Disneyland and waited in line for 45 minutes for a 20-second meet-and-greet with Tinkerbell. He was the only boy I saw in line. One day he wanted to wear his sister’s Cinderella dress to preschool. I said OK. Unfortunately for him, he wet his pants (and the dress) before getting to preschool… I admit to a little twinge when he is interested in girly stuff, but I try to stifle it and not discourage him. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856/40 "2009-03-03T06:52:34Z")
I wouldn’t let my son do that at that age. Once he hits the teenage years and wants to do those things fine. But not that young. It feels to much to me like you’re teaching him to be intrinsically effeminate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-children-and-gender-roles/487856.md?page=3)