# Small government advocate wants police to harass distraught women **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 22, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176 "2011-02-22T01:36:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/61 "2011-02-22T15:37:37Z")
> [@zut](#): > > Not to get in the way of an old-fashioned slapfight, but it appears that the “registration of spontaneous fetal deaths” is _already Georgia law._ The proposed legislation just modifies the existing law to eliminate references to abortion. > > [Proposed legislation](http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display.aspx?Legislation=31965) > [Georgia Code - Health - Title 31, Section 31-10-18](http://law.onecle.com/georgia/31/31-10-18.html) Yes. That’s where I got the language I quoted above. That’s kinda my point, actually. The law already requires the notification. This just changes the terminology and eliminates the acknowledgement that abortion is legal and exempt. Which means, as I said above, that it seeks to criminalize abortion, and rename it as “prenatal murder” in the criminal code, actions that are either null, or forbidden to a state under federal constitutional law. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/62 "2011-02-22T15:41:40Z")
Speaking as an ardent pro-choice advocate, having read the bill and the sections of the Georgia code it changes: 1) Bricker’s right about it and 2) why the hell are we bitching about illusory heightened miscarriage reporting requirements in a bill that is 50% by weight a screed attempting to invalidate Roe vs. Wade’s applicability to the states and criminalize abortion as murder? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/63 "2011-02-22T15:43:20Z")
I think the intention to call abortion “murder” fundamentally changes the nature of those miscarriage notifications (misbegotten to begin with, and I don’t see how they could survive a privacy challenge) essentially into murder investigations. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/64 "2011-02-22T15:49:47Z")
There is no such intention. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/65 "2011-02-22T15:51:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. That’s where I got the language I quoted above. That’s kinda my point, actually. If you’re referring to post 45, you didn’t actually _make_ that point. I assume the omission was on purpose? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/66 "2011-02-22T15:55:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But no. Instead, **margin** , a prominent leader in the Dumbassery Movement, shrieks hysterically at my comments, demanding the right to spout agreement with idiocy unimpeded by facts. I love how you use all these sexist dogwhistles and yet claim that you’re one of the ones who are devoted to fighting ignorance----while your history making light of rape and harassment indicates you are the very model of it, but this board skews toward the kind of guys who disrupt every discussion about rape with whines about false accusations. And I see that you have proven my right by launching into ad homs and, indeed, acting as if all this crap happens in a magical vacuum where sexism doesn’t exist. And you will ignore this sentence that immediately precedes this one to fling more insults and attacks—which, apparently, are acceptable forms of argument when _you_ use them but are forbidden to anybody else—while Shodan yucks along. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/67 "2011-02-22T15:55:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think the intention to call abortion “murder” fundamentally changes the nature of those miscarriage notifications (misbegotten to begin with, and I don’t see how they could survive a privacy challenge) essentially into murder investigations. You think that, but you can’t point to a single actual written cite that supports the viewpoint. How, precisely and with reference to any applicable laws, codes, decisions, guidelines, rules, or any specific and articulable facts outside your head, does the language change affect the notification requirement? Is it bad? Sure. Is it useless? Yes. Would it survive any kind of challenge? No. If enacted, would it require a “fundamental change” in notifications? No. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/68 "2011-02-22T15:56:47Z")
> [@zut](#): > > If you’re referring to post 45, you didn’t actually _make_ that point. I assume the omission was on purpose? Oops. No, I meant to include a link to the code I was quoting. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/69 "2011-02-22T16:02:00Z")
> [@margin](#): > > I love how you use all these sexist dogwhistles… What sexist dogwhistles? > [@](#): > > and yet claim that you’re one of the ones who are devoted to fighting ignorance----while your history making light of rape and harassment indicates you are the very model of it, but this board skews toward the kind of guys who disrupt every discussion about rape with whines about false accusations. Um… there’s nothing in this thread about rape. > [@](#): > > And I see that you have proven my right by launching into ad homs and, indeed, acting as if all this crap happens in a magical vacuum where sexism doesn’t exist. And you will ignore this sentence that immediately precedes this one to fling more insults and attacks—which, apparently, are acceptable forms of argument when _you_ use them but are forbidden to anybody else—while Shodan yucks along. Try to follow along. This thread complains about the specific effect of a law. If you, instead, wish to morph into, “The fact that a law like this can be proposed indicates the pervasive sexism still extant today!” then … well, then I suppose I’d agree with you, at least insofar as it relates to the legislator proposing it. But I’m rebutting the charge that this law would require some fundamental change in Georgia law as regards miscarriages. So to make it simple: (a) The proposed law requires fundamental changes in how miscarriages would be handled under Georgia law (b) The proposed law indicates a problem with sexism I’m discussing (a). Are you also discussing (a), or are you discussing (b)? Or some as-yet-undefined (c)? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/70 "2011-02-22T16:05:15Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > but that just isn’t the case (since fighting wars is one of the things on any small government advocate’s list of proper government activities). I’m sure it is. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/71 "2011-02-22T16:14:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Bricker:What sexist dogwhistles? You mean the great and powerful Bricker is claiming he’s unaware of the history and traditional usage of the word ‘hysteria’ and—because this is the kind of thing you’d do—its derivatives? (I’m sure you’d claim that you didn’t use the word ‘hysteria’ and that it’s totally different and significant to use hysterical.) Tell me, Bricker, as an example, because when one asks you a question, unless one dots every I and crosses every T your standard trick is to pretend the question is too obscure and stupid for your highness to answer it, Are you aware of the concept of dogwhistles? (Standard Bricker MO here would be for him to claim that he is, indeed, aware that whistles are used to summon dogs, but…) I want an answer to that, no bullshit. [QUOTE] Um… there’s nothing in this thread about rape.[/QU0TE] A general statement. Now you’re indulging in that Bricker blindness, acting as if there’s no history and no context for statements and events on this board. See above. > [@](#): > > Try to follow along. This thread complains about the specific effect of a law. > > Or some as-yet-undefined (c)? That arrogance again, based on evasive manuevers and nitpicking and denial. If you have an argument, drop the tricks, the evasions, the insults, and the bloviating. I doubt you will but I’d like to issue the challenge. Of course, I’m sure you will merely whip out more insults and evasions, but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/72 "2011-02-22T16:20:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You think that, but you can’t point to a single actual written cite that supports the viewpoint. Yes I can, I can point to the bill which explicitly tries to define all abortions as murder. That fundamentally changes the nature of miscarriage notifications, QED. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/73 "2011-02-22T16:32:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes I can, I can point to the bill which explicitly tries to define all abortions as murder. That fundamentally changes the nature of miscarriage notifications, QED. OK. Your post is your cite. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/74 "2011-02-22T16:32:56Z")
Whilst you all are bitching and grandstanding and declaring what a thread should and shouldn’t be about… can I just say: Women in GA have to report when they have a miscarriage??? Jesus fucking christ what the fuck is wrong with people??? Thank you for fighting my ignorance **Bricker**. I agree that the proposed law does not really change anything. But I still have to say, “why the fuck is there a law like this in the first fucking place.” And I am soooo sorry that this is a post made “more-in-sorrow-than-anger,” or whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. But this isn’t great debates. In this instance, I don’t give a good god damn about the letter of the law, the broad-brush characterizations of conservatives, or “small government advocates,” or any other argument… This just makes me sad for the people in GA. I feel sorry for the women of GA, who have to report their misery. And for the people of GA who elected this fucking asshat… ME ANGRY!!! GGAAAAAHHHH!!! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/75 "2011-02-22T16:38:53Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You mean the great and powerful Bricker is claiming he’s unaware of the history and traditional usage of the word ‘hysteria’ and—because this is the kind of thing you’d do—its derivatives? (I’m sure you’d claim that you didn’t use the word ‘hysteria’ and that it’s totally different and significant to use hysterical.) Good grief, you are a moron. [Here is the definition of the word.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hysterical) From that page: > [@](#): > > Examples of HYSTERIA > > 1. A few of the children began to scream, and soon they were all caught up in the hysteria. > 2. Wartime hysteria led to many unfair accusations of treachery. > 3. The spreading of the disease caused mass hysteria in the village. None of those are (I assume you agree) sexist. Yes – I know that the _origin_ of the word is “from Greek hysterikos, from hystera womb; from the Greek notion that hysteria was peculiar to women and caused by disturbances of the uteru.” But that does not transform every use of the word into a sexist insult. I think I can safely dismiss you in this thread. You’ve claimed that because I characterized your agitated, feverish, ill-informed furor as “hysterical,” that i have behaved in a sexist manner. That defines and highlights your credibility perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/76 "2011-02-22T16:43:10Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > Whilst you all are bitching and grandstanding and declaring what a thread should and shouldn’t be about… can I just say: > > Women in GA have to report when they have a miscarriage??? Jesus fucking christ what the fuck is wrong with people??? > > Thank you for fighting my ignorance **Bricker**. I agree that the proposed law does not really change anything. But I still have to say, “why the fuck is there a law like this in the first fucking place.” And I am soooo sorry that this is a post made “more-in-sorrow-than-anger,” or whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. > > But this isn’t great debates. In this instance, I don’t give a good god damn about the letter of the law, the broad-brush characterizations of conservatives, or “small government advocates,” or any other argument… This just makes me sad for the people in GA. I feel sorry for the women of GA, who have to report their misery. And for the people of GA who elected this fucking asshat… > > ME ANGRY!!! GGAAAAAHHHH!!! What the hell is this? You read my post? You actually read the point I was making, and modified your argument to address a real issue??? What the hell are you doing in this thread? This is far too reasonable to be permitted! It’s not clear to me what triggers the reporting requirement for “fetal death.” I agree that it could be a horribly intrusive and inappropriate requirement, but on the other hand, the law’s existed for five-ish years and I’m unaware of any ill effects of it, so my first reaction is I’d like to know more about the application of it in real life. But assuming it says what it appears to say… yeah, this seems absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/77 "2011-02-22T16:46:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But that’s already Georgia [http://law.onecle.com/georgia/31/31-10-18.html](http://law.onecle.com/georgia/31/31-10-18.html) law. What CHANGES do you object to? I’ve looked around on the web a little bit, but I cannot resolve something. Perhaps **Bricker** , you can do so for me, since you apparently are fully informed about current and proposed Georgia law on this. Right now, the term fetal death is used. Apparently, current law states: “(3) When a spontaneous fetal death required to be reported by this Code section occurs without medical attendance at or immediately after the delivery or when inquiry is required by Article 2 of Chapter 16 of Title 45, the ‘Georgia Death Investigation Act,’ the proper investigating official shall investigate the cause of fetal death and shall prepare and file the report within 30 days; and…” Can you show me how the investigation and potential punishment of fetal death as in the quote above is equivalent to the investigation and potential punishment of murder? If not, it seems that this law proposes a pretty significant change. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/78 "2011-02-22T16:55:20Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’ve looked around on the web a little bit, but I cannot resolve something. Perhaps **Bricker** , you can do so for me, since you apparently are fully informed about current and proposed Georgia law on this. > > Right now, the term fetal death is used. Apparently, current law states: “(3) When a spontaneous fetal death required to be reported by this Code section occurs without medical attendance at or immediately after the delivery or when inquiry is required by Article 2 of Chapter 16 of Title 45, the ‘Georgia Death Investigation Act,’ the proper investigating official shall investigate the cause of fetal death and shall prepare and file the report within 30 days; and…” > > Can you show me how the investigation and potential punishment of fetal death as in the quote above is equivalent to the investigation and potential punishment of murder? If not, it seems that this law proposes a pretty significant change. Not so far as I can see. Georgia’s § 45-16-24 doesn’t use the term “murder.” So (again, so far as I can see) there’s nothing new triggered by changing the term from _fetal death_ to _fetal murder_. In other words, current law already requires that certain fetal deaths be reported and investigated. Calling them something different, like “murder,” while obviously inflammatory, makes absolutely no difference in the law. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/79 "2011-02-22T16:57:26Z")
There’s already a requirement to report fetal death? Seems pretty toothless, absent some requirement to report the existence of a fetus in the first place. Does the state of Georgia have one of those on the books, or is that something we should look for some time in the future? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/80 "2011-02-22T16:59:46Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You mean the great and powerful Bricker is claiming he’s unaware of the history and traditional usage of the word ‘hysteria’ and—because this is the kind of thing you’d do—its derivatives? (I’m sure you’d claim that you didn’t use the word ‘hysteria’ and that it’s totally different and significant to use hysterical.) There are several brands of decaf on the market that taste just as good as the real thing. Alternately, why don’t you take that hole in your face that you put pie in and shut it already–adults are talking. > [@Bricker](#): > > OK. Your post is your cite. To be fair, the change of language from “induced termination of pregnancy” to “prenatal murder” in section 2.13 is at best chilling in intent, regardless of the chances it’ll pass constitutional muster. It amounts to a change in the spirit of the law without much of a meaningful change in the letter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176.md?page=5)