# Small government advocate wants police to harass distraught women **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 22, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176 "2011-02-22T01:36:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/101 "2011-02-22T18:50:27Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > NO FUCKING SHIT. > > But under the proposed law, it would be the investigation of a murder. Surely, this might be deemed an intrusive requirement, no doubt. > > What you continue to fail to demonstrate is that the legal process associated with causing a fetal death under present Georgia law is the same as the legal process associated with a murder. > > If it is, then you are correct about this law, in that it represents no meaningful change. > > If it is not, then you are wrong, and I point to this as an example of you selecting a position based on a pre-existing political orientation, making incorrect statements as a result, and having to be pursued through a knot hole in order to acknowledge your error, if you ever do. > > It seems to me that you are not going to. I’ll be happy to, if I see I’ve made an error. Right now, it’s you who appear to be wrong. You appear to believe that the invocation of the word “murder” somehow triggers some new process under the law somewhere. Why don’t you lay out, specifically, a miscarriage scenario that under present Georgia law would be treated acceptably, and under this new law be treated unacceptably? In other words, SPECIFICALLY, what would this law change? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/102 "2011-02-22T18:57:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ll be happy to, if I see I’ve made an error. > > Right now, it’s you who appear to be wrong. You appear to believe that the invocation of the word “murder” somehow triggers some new process under the law somewhere. You’re certainly the expert in Georgia law. I’ve asked you to show me where in Georgia code it is written that there are some murders they will not prosecute. You pointed to code that had nothing to do with that. > [@](#): > > Why don’t you lay out, specifically, a miscarriage scenario that under present Georgia law would be treated acceptably, and under this new law be treated unacceptably? You’ve asserted that the law changes nothing. Then you acknowledge perhaps that there would have to be investigations of miscarriages, but this is only slightly intrusive. Now you’re being evasive about the difference between intentional fetal death and murder. Say a woman punches herself in the stomach in order to cause a miscarriage. How is this presently treated under Georgia law? How would it be treated under the proposed law? Are the two the same, or different? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/103 "2011-02-22T19:00:34Z")
Still like to know how it’s meaningful to require reporting of fetal death without requiring the reporting of the existence of a fetus in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/104 "2011-02-22T19:18:11Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Still like to know how it’s meaningful to require reporting of fetal death without requiring the reporting of the existence of a fetus in the first place. And when is it fetal death??? Doesn’t a doctor have to make that determination anyway? I’ve had three miscarriages this year. ☹ But only the first actually reached fetus status (past 8 weeks with a heatbeat), and required a D&C. With the second, I had a positive pregnancy test, but then got a heavy period about five days late. IANAD, but I do not think it was a fetus at that point. Then I had a blighted ovum, which I passed (about the size of a golf ball), but was in no way shape or form anything other than a mass of clotted blood and gunk. That was decidedly not a fetus. So which of those would I have to report? Honestly? As a lawyer, I am well aware that VA has its own ridiculous laws on the books. In fact, in traffic court it is a bit of a game amongst the defense attorneys and prosecutors to see who can amend a speeding ticket to the most ridiculous code section. But this GA law really is a huge mound of legally pointless horseshit… that has the potential to be a huge mound of politically pointless horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/105 "2011-02-22T19:27:48Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > And when is it fetal death??? Doesn’t a doctor have to make that determination anyway? > > I’ve had three miscarriages this year. ☹ But only the first actually reached fetus status (past 8 weeks with a heatbeat), and required a D&C. With the second, I had a positive pregnancy test, but then got a heavy period about five days late. IANAD, but I do not think it was a fetus at that point. Then I had a blighted ovum, which I passed (about the size of a golf ball), but was in no way shape or form anything other than a mass of clotted blood and gunk. That was decidedly not a fetus. > > So which of those would I have to report? Honestly? Any and all of them. According to the proposed law: “(1) A fetus is a person for all purposes under the laws of this state from the moment of conception;” As long as a doctor wasn’t there, it would have been the responsibility of the state to investigate and determine whether it was an act of murder. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/106 "2011-02-22T19:48:39Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You’re certainly the expert in Georgia law. I’ve asked you to show me where in Georgia code it is written that there are some murders they will not prosecute. My apologies. So far as I’m aware, there is no Georgia law saying some murders won’t be prosecuted. > [@](#): > > Then you acknowledge perhaps that there would have to be investigations of miscarriages, but this is only slightly intrusive. Now you’re being evasive about the difference between intentional fetal death and murder. > > Say a woman punches herself in the stomach in order to cause a miscarriage. How is this presently treated under Georgia law? How would it be treated under the proposed law? Are the two the same, or different? Good. An actual scenario. Here is the current law of Georgia: > [@](#): > > § 16-5-80. Feticide; voluntary manslaughter of an unborn child; penalties > (a) For the purposes of this Code section, the term “unborn child” means a member of the species homo sapiens at any stage of development who is carried in the womb. > > (b) A person commits the offense of feticide if he or she willfully and without legal justification causes the death of an unborn child by any injury to the mother of such child, which would be murder if it resulted in the death of such mother, or if he or she, when in the commission of a felony, causes the death of an unborn child. > > (c) A person convicted of the offense of feticide shall be punished by imprisonment for life. > > (d) A person commits the offense of voluntary manslaughter of an unborn child when such person causes the death of an unborn child under circumstances which would otherwise be feticide and if such person acts solely as the result of a sudden, violent, and irresistible passion resulting from serious provocation sufficient to excite such passion in a reasonable person; provided, however, that, if there should have been an interval between the provocation and the killing sufficient for the voice of reason and humanity to be heard, of which the jury in all cases shall be the judge, the killing shall be attributed to deliberate revenge and be punished as feticide. > > (e) A person convicted of the offense of voluntary manslaughter of an unborn child shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than 20 years. In _Johnson v. State_, there is discussion of this principle: > [@Johnson v. State](#): > > Moreover, in light of Jackson’s report that she had been severely beaten prior to the stillbirth, the state had a compelling interest in investigating the cause of death. See OCGA § 16-5-80 (offense of feticide). Under the Georgia Death Investigation Act (OCGA § 45-16-20 et seq.) “[w]hen any person dies in any county in this state . . . [a]s a result of violence. . . it shall be the duty of any law enforcement officer or other person having knowledge of such death to notify immediately the coroner or county medical examiner . . . . A coroner or county medical examiner who is notified of [such death] shall order a medical examiner’s inquiry of that death.” OCGA § 45-16-24 (a) (1), (b). A medical examiner’s inquiry is an investigation into the circumstances surrounding such death, and may include an autopsy and other tests and examinations to determine the cause of death. OCGA §§ 45-16-21 (1), (10); 45-16-22 (c); 45-16-25 (c). The blood testing was done as part of the autopsy performed on the stillborn fetus to determine the cause of death. In _Hill v. State_, 664 SE 2d 781, (Ga: App. 2008), Alexis Hill was charged with “concealing the death of another person by hindering the discovery of whether her infant child was unlawfully killed.” > [@Hill v State](#): > > In this case, Hill claimed that she got into a tub of warm water when she was pregnant, lost consciousness, and awoke to find that she had given birth to a stillborn child who was floating in the bath water. Afraid to tell anyone, she put the child in a plastic bag and buried the child in her back yard. Hill’s revelation to her brother of what had happened led to discovery of the child’s body several months later. Through an autopsy, it was determined that at the time of its birth the child had reached approximately 34 to 37 weeks in gestation. Although the Georgia Crime Laboratory described the fetus as essentially full term, it could not be determined due to the decomposition of the body if the child had been born alive with an independent and separate existence from Hill or was stillborn. Nor could the cause or manner of death be determined. It did appear, however, that the child had no deformities or congenital defects that would have prevented her from being born alive and sustaining life after birth. > > This evidence authorized the court to find that Hill gave birth to a child capable of sustaining an independent and separate existence from her, i.e., a viable child. We hold that even if such a child is stillborn, the child still becomes a person within the meaning of OCGA § 16-10-31 at birth. Because the child in this case was born, our holding certainly does not require us to construe the term “person,” as used in OCGA § 16-10-31, to include the unborn, which was the problem in Peters. And a contrary construction of OCGA § 16-10-31 would lead to the absurd result that no provable crime whatsoever has been committed here, given the effectiveness of Hill’s concealment of whether her child— who was unquestionably born — died prenatally or neonatally. You asked: > [@Hentor](#): > > Say a woman punches herself in the stomach in order to cause a miscarriage. How is this presently treated under Georgia law? How would it be treated under the proposed law? Are the two the same, or different? Under current Georgia law, it seems to me that the answer would hinge on whether the fetus was viable (age-wise) prior to the act. Under the new Georgia law, it would be punishable regardless of the viability. But there are no new investigation requirements – the new and old law frameworks don’t change the investigation requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/107 "2011-02-22T19:51:44Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Any and all of them. According to the proposed law: “(1) A fetus is a person for all purposes under the laws of this state from the moment of conception;” > > As long as a doctor wasn’t there, it would have been the responsibility of the state to investigate and determine whether it was an act of murder. How so, when the investigation law clearly says, “After birth but before seven years of age if the death is unexpected or unexplained?” What other law would change that? What part of the new law would impose a new investigation requirement? You seem to think that there’s some law somewhere that says, “If it’s murder, then we have to investigate.” Where is that law? ---
**Author:** ![rooostra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d07c76/32.png) [@rooostra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rooostra)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/108 "2011-02-22T20:54:23Z")
Bricker, I tend to agree with you that there are more egregious things to single this bill out for than as posited by the OP and many . The criminalization of abortion, for starters, as well as the declaration of fetal personhood (which actually has much more far-ranging effects than the criminalization of abortion.) Not to mention their ludicrous interpretation of Constitutional law re: Roe v. Wade - reasoning that, if posted here, would most likely prompt a substantial response from you as to why the legal reasoning was intellectually bankrupt. And you are correct that there is currently a requirement for fetal death reports in the status quo. And there is nothing that textually requires increased investigation of miscarriages in the bill. However, if in some magical fairyland, this law was passed and survived constitutional muster, do you honestly believe that in a Georgia where abortion is no longer legal and fetal personhood is an enshrined right, that there would not be an increased focus on investigating reported miscarriages by the zealous anti-abortion government? After all, the only way to hide an illegal abortion under this regime would be to report it as a miscarriage. In other words, were this law to pass, there are sufficient facts to infer that the Georgia State government would use existing law regarding required reporting in a substantially more intrusive way than it currently does. So the concern about investigations of miscarriages is not entirely unwarranted. And maybe the focus on these articles is to persuade people who are pro-life (and may not otherwise be particularly dismayed about the criminalization of abortion) that a hard-line fetal personhood position would have consequences that they hadn’t considered, like increased scrutiny over reported miscarriages. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/109 "2011-02-22T21:34:31Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Has to do with an award-nominated sci-fi story, as near as I can tell. Please feel free to elaborate. As part of a larger program of forcing social changes, aliens who need birth hosts impregnate vocal pro-choice male politicians with alien babies - because they’re clearly the best choice for the job, since they keep going on about the sanctity of the unborn and such. Of course, the ensuing outcry reveals their inherent hypocrisy - but they have to go through with it anyway, they are not allowed to abort, and childbirth is pretty traumatic too (IIRC, it’s off-page, but is hinted at being a surviveable _Alien_-style “birth”). Plus everyone knows who they are, so when they return to Earth, some of them commit suicide. Tepper can be a bit axe-grindy. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/110 "2011-02-22T21:37:21Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Oh, I always LOVE how “small government advocates” are always willing to have The Gummint intrude into people’s lives when it’s an issue that THEY feel strongly about. . It’s called hypocrisy. But you knew that, I was pointing it out to the ass hats who suport scum like this guy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/111 "2011-02-22T21:47:56Z")
Perhaps its nothing more than smoke and mirrors? A legislative dog-whistle, something that actually accomplishes nothing at all but can be offered to one’s batshit constituents as proof of a commitment to The Cause? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/112 "2011-02-22T22:34:21Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It’s called hypocrisy. But you knew that, I was pointing it out to the ass hats who suport scum like this guy. No, it’s called you not knowing what small government principles are (as I explained upthread). ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/113 "2011-02-22T22:57:01Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I have never met an honest small government advocate. So far, they all seem to be conservatives in disguise Do anarchists count as small government advocates? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/114 "2011-02-22T22:58:08Z")
> [@rooostra](#): > > Bricker, > > I tend to agree with you that there are more egregious things to single this bill out for than as posited by the OP and many . The criminalization of abortion, for starters, as well as the declaration of fetal personhood (which actually has much more far-ranging effects than the criminalization of abortion.) Not to mention their ludicrous interpretation of Constitutional law re: Roe v. Wade - reasoning that, if posted here, would most likely prompt a substantial response from you as to why the legal reasoning was intellectually bankrupt. Absolutely. And if I didn’t make utterly clear my feelings on that last point, I think it’s absurd and disgraceful to draft a law that attempts to declare that the Supreme Court has no authority. While I do agree that their reasoning was less than sound in Roe v. Wade and Casey v. PP, that’s not my call to make – nor is it the Georgia legislature’s. > [@](#): > > And you are correct that there is currently a requirement for fetal death reports in the status quo. And there is nothing that textually requires increased investigation of miscarriages in the bill. Well, that’s what I’m saying. So – good. Perhaps you and I could work our a schedule to explain this to any other posters that remain unconvinced? > [@](#): > > However, if in some magical fairyland, this law was passed and survived constitutional muster, do you honestly believe that in a Georgia where abortion is no longer legal and fetal personhood is an enshrined right, that there would not be an increased focus on investigating reported miscarriages by the zealous anti-abortion government? After all, the only way to hide an illegal abortion under this regime would be to report it as a miscarriage. It depends on how magical the fairyland is. To imagine that this…er… abortion, if you’ll pardon the grisly pun, could survive constitutional muster requires imagining a vastly different political landscape than we have today. In that Bizarro World, sure, I can imagine that some incredily fascist-minded individuals might gain enough power to start investigating miscarriages, but even then, a necessary predicate would be requiring the registration of pregnancies. So … I’ll allow the mathematical possibility that some incredibly unlikely confluence of future evnts might gets us there… but it’s SO not the subject I’d focus a Pit thread on. I mean, let’s think about it: this is a bill that explicitly states that Georgia is not bound by Supreme Court rulings, that abortion is now a crime punishable by death, and the Pit thread about this bill asks us to be outraged because _miscarriages_ will be investigated? > [@](#): > > In other words, were this law to pass, there are sufficient facts to infer that the Georgia State government would use existing law regarding required reporting in a substantially more intrusive way than it currently does. > > So the concern about investigations of miscarriages is not entirely unwarranted. And maybe the focus on these articles is to persuade people who are pro-life (and may not otherwise be particularly dismayed about the criminalization of abortion) that a hard-line fetal personhood position would have consequences that they hadn’t considered, like increased scrutiny over reported miscarriages. Yes, the concern IS entirely unwarranted, or to be more precise, the amount of concern that’s warranted is zero plus epsilon. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/115 "2011-02-22T23:00:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Perhaps its nothing more than smoke and mirrors? A legislative dog-whistle, something that actually accomplishes nothing at all but can be offered to one’s batshit constituents as proof of a commitment to The Cause? Yes… assuming that the constituents here are idiots. I’m ardently pro-life, and I’d be furious if I elected a pro-life state rep that wasted his time like this. If he seriously wanted to attack Roe v Wade, let him get a resolution passed funding a commission to contact the other forty-nine states and organize a Constitutional Convention. At least that has a tiny chance of going somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/116 "2011-02-22T23:55:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > No, it’s called you not knowing what small government principles are (as I explained upthread). As long as you understand that your definition was so unspecific that (for example) Obama could define himself as “small-government” under it. > [@Bricker](#): > > Yes… assuming that the constituents here are idiots. I’m ardently pro-life, and I’d be furious if I elected a pro-life state rep that wasted his time like this. If he seriously wanted to attack Roe v Wade, let him get a resolution passed funding a commission to contact the other forty-nine states and organize a Constitutional Convention. At least that has a tiny chance of going somewhere. Sadly, when in my younger days I was a Catholic I attended many a Pro-Life yearly march in D.C., and between those memories and the stories of pure blinding idiocy my ardently pro-life dad tells me about the current ones, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear a great many of his constituents are drooling like Pavlov’s dogs over this. I’d be pleasantly surprised to find out more are like you or my dad. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/117 "2011-02-23T00:10:00Z")
Well, gee, Bricker has some higher authority on what is and what isn’t valid “concern.” What obviously isn’t a concern to him is the police-state brutality of forcing women who’ve been through a recent trauma and are in no way suspected of a crime to have strangers poring over their personal lives in search of wrongdoing. It doesn’t occur to you small government types that people have the right to go about their personal lives without government referees popping in uninvited whenever you’ve gone through something terrible. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/118 "2011-02-23T00:11:28Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Do anarchists count as small government advocates? 😃 Yes, but I’ve never actually met a real life anarchist either! Probably because they’re all either dead or dying in their lawless utopian wasteland 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/119 "2011-02-23T00:17:00Z")
I keep joking that I’m going to write a YA romance about a sullen teen girl in love with a Yog Sosoth. Maybe I can drag you in as a consultant? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/120 "2011-02-23T00:19:13Z")
I’m going to try some of the Rand/Bricker tricks to convince you to support Obama Care. For Rand: It’s not big government at all, you see. It’s small government, it’s just big in places. For Bricker: It is of no concern! Nothing to worry about. It’s like pi plus delta squared e to the nth power divided by itself minus 1. See how convincing your tropes are? No? Fine. But rest assured, it’s oh so meaningful when you guys do it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176.md?page=7)