# Small government advocate wants police to harass distraught women **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 22, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176 "2011-02-22T01:36:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/121 "2011-02-23T00:53:49Z")
TL:DR When come back, bring pi plus delta squared e to the nth power divided by itself minus 1. ---
**Author:** ![rooostra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d07c76/32.png) [@rooostra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rooostra)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/122 "2011-02-23T01:03:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So … I’ll allow the mathematical possibility that some incredibly unlikely confluence of future evnts might gets us there… but it’s SO not the subject I’d focus a Pit thread on. I mean, let’s think about it: this is a bill that explicitly states that Georgia is not bound by Supreme Court rulings, that abortion is now a crime punishable by death, and the Pit thread about this bill asks us to be outraged because _miscarriages_ will be investigated? > > Yes, the concern IS entirely unwarranted, or to be more precise, the amount of concern that’s warranted is zero plus epsilon. At this point your opposition to the Pitting sounds a little bit like the following: “This is a terrible bill, but you are opposing it for the wrong reasons. Rather than opposing it on the grounds that it could increase investigation of miscarriages which will never happen, you should oppose it because it purports to ban abortion which will never happen.” A little nitpicky, in my opinion. Either way, this legislator plays for your team, so I don’t really care what the exact reasons he is shown to be a lunatic and a bit of a fascist. I do think that highlighting the fact that investigation of miscarriages is a foreseeable consequence of recognizing fetal personhood is a valid argumentative tactic to try convince people who would be otherwise okay with banning abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/123 "2011-02-23T03:20:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What other law would change that? What part of the new law would impose a new investigation requirement? See, this is why you are the law talkin’ dude and I’m not. I would foolishly think that there is some difference between an inquiry by the medical examiner and a criminal investigation. Apparently, however, these are one and the same. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/124 "2011-02-23T03:29:31Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > Well, gee, Bricker has some higher authority on what is and what isn’t valid “concern.” What obviously isn’t a concern to him is the police-state brutality of forcing women who’ve been through a recent trauma and are in no way suspected of a crime to have strangers poring over their personal lives in search of wrongdoing. It doesn’t occur to you small government types that people have the right to go about their personal lives without government referees popping in uninvited whenever you’ve gone through something terrible. See that tiny dot waaaaay over there? That’s the point, which you have spectacularly failed to understand. “..the police-state brutality of forcing women who’ve been through a recent trauma and are in no way suspected of a crime to have strangers poring over their personal lives in search of wrongdoing…” Yes. Except that as Ihave pointed out: THIS LAW DOESN’T DO THAT. Did you read any of that, or just skip over those inconvenient parts? THIS LAW DOESN’T DO THAT! How much simpler can I get? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/125 "2011-02-23T03:32:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > See that tiny dot waaaaay over there? > > That’s the point, which you have spectacularly failed to understand. > > “..the police-state brutality of forcing women who’ve been through a recent trauma and are in no way suspected of a crime to have strangers poring over their personal lives in search of wrongdoing…” > > Yes. Except that as Ihave pointed out: THIS LAW DOESN’T DO THAT. > > Did you read any of that, or just skip over those inconvenient parts? > > THIS LAW DOESN’T DO THAT! How much simpler can I get? You’re entirely correct, except for the part that when a miscarriage occurs and a physician wasn’t present, someone has to determine if a murder was committed. Apart from that minor detail… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/126 "2011-02-23T03:35:02Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > For Bricker: It is of no concern! Nothing to worry about. It’s like pi plus delta squared e to the nth power divided by itself minus 1. > > See how convincing your tropes are? > . I see that you are spectacularly idiotic. What amazes me is why you feel comfortable coming to this board, of all places, advertising that you don’t understand something, and expect to be greeted with praise. What I said had a [very specific meaning.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/(%CE%B5,_%CE%B4)-definition_of_limit) Epsilon refers to a very tiny, positive value. Paul Erdős used it (jokingly) to refer to children for this reason. But you are too fucking stupid to understand the reference, and rather than saying, “What does that mean?” you simply assume it’s babble, and, like a drooling simian, try to repeat it. What an ass. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/127 "2011-02-23T03:35:26Z")
You seem to have blinders on about what the meaning of the filed police report is. It is already a big government fantasy, one where we’re somehow required to disclose private medical facts to THE MAN, but the reason for filing those police reports is so they can investigate. Just like every other police report you file. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/128 "2011-02-23T03:36:34Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You’re entirely correct, except for the part that when a miscarriage occurs and a physician wasn’t present, someone has to determine if a murder was committed. Apart from that minor detail… Why do you ignore “After birth but before seven years of age if the death is unexpected or unexplained?” That says, specifically, that only AFTER BIRTH is the requirement triggered. Did you forget that? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/129 "2011-02-23T03:38:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I see that you are spectacularly idiotic. > > What amazes me is why you feel comfortable coming to this board, of all places, advertising that you don’t understand something, and expect to be greeted with praise. > > What I said had a [very specific meaning.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/(%CE%B5,_%CE%B4)-definition_of_limit) Epsilon refers to a very tiny, positive value. Paul Erdős used it (jokingly) to refer to children for this reason. > > But you are too fucking stupid to understand the reference, and rather than saying, “What does that mean?” you simply assume it’s babble, and, like a drooling simian, try to repeat it. > > What an ass. Oh, I know what epsilon is. I was mocking you for your puny attempts to sound smart. Unfortunately your little nugget of math added nothing to the emptiness of the rhetorical flourish. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/130 "2011-02-23T03:38:48Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > You seem to have blinders on about what the meaning of the filed police report is. It is already a big government fantasy, one where we’re somehow required to disclose private medical facts to THE MAN, but the reason for filing those police reports is so they can investigate. Just like every other police report you file. The part about filing police reports is ALREADY GEORGIA LAW. That isn’t a new proposal; it’s already enshrined in law. I agree it’s unnecessarily intrusive, and said so above. I DISagree that we may criticize the new bill because of this, because IT’S ALREADY THE LAW OF GEORGIA. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/131 "2011-02-23T03:40:24Z")
Oh my god he uses Wikipedia AND Lexus Nexus. He must be some kind of genius. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/132 "2011-02-23T03:40:30Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > Oh, I know what epsilon is. I was mocking you for your puny attempts to sound smart. Unfortunately your little nugget of math added nothing to the emptiness of the rhetorical flourish. Yes, suuuuure you know. Which is why you threw out all that babble, instead of making a comment that showed you knew it. Suuuure. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/133 "2011-02-23T03:41:57Z")
> **[Parody](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody)** > > A parody is a creative work designed to imitate, comment on, and/or mock its subject by means of satiric or ironic imitation. Often its subject is an original work or some aspect of it (theme/content, author, style, etc), but a parody can also be about a real-life person (e.g. a politician), event, or movement (e.g. the French Revolution or 1960s counterculture). Literary scholar Professor Simon Dentith defines parody as "any cultural practice which provides a relatively polemical allusive imitat... ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/134 "2011-02-23T03:48:54Z")
> [@rooostra](#): > > At this point your opposition to the Pitting sounds a little bit like the following: “This is a terrible bill, but you are opposing it for the wrong reasons. Rather than opposing it on the grounds that it could increase investigation of miscarriages which will never happen, you should oppose it because it purports to ban abortion which will never happen.” A little nitpicky, in my opinion. The difference is that the bill could pass. The “ban abortion” will never happen because that ban conflicts with federal caselaw. But the “investigation of miscarriage” claim simply isn’t a part of the bill. So both claims “will never happen,” but they are of different categories of fiction. The bill DOES, by its plain text, “ban abortion.” It does NOT require investigation of miscarriages. > [@](#): > > Either way, this legislator plays for your team, so I don’t really care what the exact reasons he is shown to be a lunatic and a bit of a fascist. I do think that highlighting the fact that investigation of miscarriages is a foreseeable consequence of recognizing fetal personhood is a valid argumentative tactic to try convince people who would be otherwise okay with banning abortion. “Valid?” Why? It’s a classic scare tactic, akin to death panels. In fact, that’s an excellent analogy. The institution of “death panels” are at least as foreseeable as the investigation of misscarriages. But using that highly unlikely scenario as a reason to oppose UHC is not a valid tactic. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/135 "2011-02-23T03:49:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why do you ignore “After birth but before seven years of age if the death is unexpected or unexplained?” > > That says, specifically, that only AFTER BIRTH is the requirement triggered. > > Did you forget that? You keep pointing to the language of the “Georgia Death Investigation Act”. I know I’m ignorant in the ways of the law, but it still seems to me that the meaning of “or” is the same to the layman as it is to the legal scholar. So, when this law says (bolding mine) > [@](#): > > (3) When a spontaneous fetal death required to be reported by this Code section occurs without medical attendance at or immediately after the delivery **or** when inquiry is required by Article 2 of Chapter 16 of Title 45, the ‘Georgia Death Investigation Act,’ the proper investigating official shall investigate the cause of fetal death and shall prepare and file the report within 30 days; and Then the language that you keep pointing to (“AFTER BIRTH”) is not relevant in the case of a spontaneous fetal death occurring without medical attendance. I’m cottoning to your legal expert ways, however, so I’ll put it like you do: WHEN A SPONTANEOUS FETAL DEATH REQUIRED TO BE REPORTED BY THIS CODE SECTION OCCURS WITHOUT MEDICAL ATTENDANCE AT OR IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE DELIVERY **or** … [piece that **Bricker** thinks relevant… THE PROPER INVESTIGATING OFFICIAL SHALL INVESTIGATE THE CAUSE OF FETAL DEATH.. Am I getting the hang of this legal wrangling? At present, the proper investigating official is the medical examiner. However, when the issue is the determination as to whether the crime of murder has occurred, it will become a criminal investigation, will it not? Or will the medical examiner be suited to conduct a criminal investigation? Feel free to ALL CAPS your answer as is legally warranted. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/136 "2011-02-23T03:51:45Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > [Parody - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody) Ah, yes, the famous “I was joking” defense. The problem is that as parody, it doesn’t work. What I said was a precisely correct use of the term. Your “parody” is indistinguishable from what someone who had no clue what I was talking abou would say. As such, it fails as parody. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/137 "2011-02-23T03:56:25Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m cottoning to your legal expert ways, however, so I’ll put it like you do: > > WHEN A SPONTANEOUS FETAL DEATH REQUIRED TO BE REPORTED BY THIS CODE SECTION OCCURS WITHOUT MEDICAL ATTENDANCE AT OR IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE DELIVERY **or** … [piece that **Bricker** thinks relevant… THE PROPER INVESTIGATING OFFICIAL SHALL INVESTIGATE THE CAUSE OF FETAL DEATH.. > > Am I getting the hang of this legal wrangling? No. By the words you yourself quote, that applies to a spontaneous fetal that _that is required to be reported by this section_. So let’s start with that. How is a miscarriage “required to be reported by this section?” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/138 "2011-02-23T03:57:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. > > By the words you yourself quote, that applies to a spontaneous fetal that _that is required to be reported by this section_. So let’s start with that. > > How is a miscarriage “required to be reported by this section?” Go ahead. You’re the expert on Georgia law here. You tell me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/139 "2011-02-23T03:58:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. > > By the words you yourself quote, that applies to a spontaneous fetal that _that is required to be reported by this section_. So let’s start with that. > > How is a miscarriage “required to be reported by this section?” > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Go ahead. You’re the expert on Georgia law here. You tell me. It’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176/140 "2011-02-23T04:01:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s not. Then which spontaneous fetal deaths are? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-government-advocate-wants-police-to-harass-distraught-women/572176.md?page=8)