# Small Plane Crashes into Building in Austin, TX **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 18, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484 "2010-02-18T16:56:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/61 "2010-02-19T03:53:36Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > I posted this in the other thread about this event. > > There are Facebook fan clubs about this guy. Some have been removed by Facebook, but others are popping up. “Joe Stark is a hero!” etc. > > Fly a plane into a building because you’re pissed at the American government’s domestic policies, and you’re a hero with fan clubs. > > Fly a plane into a building because you’re pissed at the American government’s foreign policies, and we bomb your country. Well, not yours. One near yours. That has citizens who look like you. Kinda. And a couple thousand less deaths. And a difference in the nationality of the grudger. But other than that, yeah, those defending Joe are nuts. (Not being sarcastic (really), just pointing out more differences and truly believe that Joe doesn’t deserve a fan club any more than the Taliban does.) ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/62 "2010-02-19T04:15:42Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > More selfish than stupid, I think. In fact, these mass murderers always seem to possess an overblown sense of self-entitlement, as if they are the only ones in the world who shouldn’t be allowed to suffer hardship. They claim to be victims of “the system,” but in fact _they_ are the ones who are victimizing themselves. > > At least we can take comfort in the fact that these murderous nimrods are very rare, no matter what the media wants us to think. Especially given that their MO is usually to kill innocent bystanders. It’s not like they’re killing themselves, which is pretty selfish in its own right, but always whomever happens to be near their malfeasance. I doubt very seriously the person he killed had anything at all to do with his tax problem, but that didn’t seem to matter. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/63 "2010-02-19T04:37:54Z")
You have to realize when life knocks you back time and time again, you want to lash out. I’m not saying it’s right, but that’s how you feel. For instance, I’ve been out of work for a long time. Last Christmas I applied in a one month time at 130 places for Christmas work and got nothing. That’s in addition to my regular job hunting. I got knocked back, treated rudely and wound up with nothing to show for my efforts. I can understand how people run amok. I’m not saying it’s right or I’d do it but I now can understand, if you get knocked back and treated shabby, even if you deserve it or it’s your fault, then the natural reaction is to lash out. Now you’re saying, but that’s different, this guy had weird and far out ideas, it’s not like being out of a job. Correct it’s not, but the feeling of being kicked around and knocked back is the same, whether the cause of that is legitimate or not I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying it’s how it is. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/64 "2010-02-19T04:49:23Z")
I have very little sympathy for a guy who says he has money troubles who thinks the solution is to burn down the house he owns (and that his wife and 12 year old daughter live in), drive the car he owns to the airport hangar space he rents, and try to murder people by crashing the airplane that he also owns. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/65 "2010-02-19T05:48:18Z")
Gotta agree with that - when I started having money problems the airplanes were the first thing I gave up. And I didn’t hurt anybody. Nor will I. Sure, life can suck. That doesn’t excuse arson and murder. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/66 "2010-02-19T06:04:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > 1. Guy’s from Texas. Spork thy, Johnny son. Like no one from anywhere else is bad. I really respect you but that’s a bit of a broad brush. : ( ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/67 "2010-02-19T07:45:25Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Spork thy, Johnny son. Like no one from anywhere else is bad. I really respect you but that’s a bit of a broad brush. > > : ( Did you even read what he wrote? **Johnny** was making a specific comparison to a person (or persons) that he encounters on another forum that he reads. He was not simply saying, “Well, the guy’s from Texas, so what do you expect?” ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/68 "2010-02-19T12:04:21Z")
Actually, the guy’d lived much longer in California than he had in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/69 "2010-02-19T12:41:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > When you read through the whole letter he comes off very narcissistic in the way he thinks he doesn’t have to pay taxes. Funny, I know quite a lot of people who share that narcissism! Guess I should be scanning the sky for planes more often. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/70 "2010-02-19T13:52:51Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > I just got this message from my sister: > \ > So she’s OK then. Great news! I was glad to read this yesterday. With a sister and her family in Austin myself, I shared your concern. Mine are fine too but my niece came uncomfortably close to otherwise. She had turned off Mopac onto 183 yesterday morning, had the plane fly directly above her and witnessed it crash into the building. She told my folks it was surreal, like watching a movie unfold in front of you and that her ititial thought was that it was another 9/11 scenario unfolding. She’s only 20 and I think it traumitized her pretty good. I’m so glad that in the shock of watching this unfold that she and the other drivers didin’t inadvertently plow into each other. I tried to call last night but haven’t spoken to her yet. If she’s anything else to share I’ll update this later. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/71 "2010-02-19T16:21:38Z")
Typical tax protester that I see every week in my line of work. Usually, they come in because the IRS is levying everything they’ve got (ie: 90% of their paycheck, draining their bank account, etc.) because of a back tax debt and the big scarlet A that goes along with being identified as a tax protester. See, the trick about it is that while the IRS can be a formidable force, the folks they _really_ go after are the tax protesters. The people that get criminally prosecuted? Many of them are tax protesters and not regular tax payers. And it makes sense in theory at least- the tax protesters actively gather other folks, feeding them all kinds of inane bullshit (AND charging innocent- though dumb- folks tons of money for the pleasure of hearing their BS). Anyway, often the tax protesters who come in will almost immediately start condescending me that I “don’t know how the government works, honey” and ask me things like, “'Now, the 16th Amendment wasn’t properly ratified. Do you know what the 16th Amendment is? And what ratified means?” I let them talk, then I point out I have a political science degree and I give them the counter arguments to all the wooey they say. Then, usually, they start accusing me of being a shill for the government, at which point I point out that I do believe our tax system is atrocious and people should be able to handle taxes themselves, BUT the way to change the system is not by breaking the law, but by working within it (just my personal philosophy). The craziest thing I ever saw was when a tax protester brought in a bunch of paperwork he had gotten from [Irwin Schiff](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irwin_Schiff) and left it with me because he claimed it would “blow [my] freakin’ mind!” This was about 300 pages that this guy had sent to the government, wrought with spelling errors and grammar errors. To sum up the general idea (from what I remember): [ul] [li]I am not actually a US citizen. I don’t agree to the laws of this country and even though I have a Driver’s License, Social Security Card, and bank accounts- I was forced under literal violent duress to get them so they don’t count. (You might notice that in this guy’s manifesto, he uses similar wording-- tax protesters love to justify their use of system stuff by referring to it as coercion and duress). [/li] [li]The protesters believe that the 16th Amendment wasn’t properly ratified (there is some basis for this argument, but you can read more about why this isn’t the accepted legal position) and even if it was, it doesn’t matter- it only applies to businesses, not personal income (also that the “lay and impose tax” part of the Constitution only refers to businesses as well). Case law directly opposes this stand point.[/li] [li]Finally, the zaniest (to me) is the idea that the United States of America doesn’t exist. We’re actually a confederation of independent nations, so the tax protester is a citizen of their independent state, not the US. In the case of the one I was reading, he actually said he was a citizen NOT of California, but of the Bear Flag Republic (o hai, 1846 26 day government). They use the state flag as evidence of this. Anyway, as a citizen of the State, they have no obligation to pay federal taxes. Oh, but they do toss in that, btw, they don’t have to pay state taxes either because the Bear Flag Republic he said he was a member of earlier? Yeah, jk, that doesn’t exist either. [/li][/ul] Good gravy. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/72 "2010-02-19T16:31:32Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > In the case of the one I was reading, he actually said he was a citizen NOT of California, but of the Bear Flag Republic (o hai, 1846 26 day government). They use the state flag as evidence of this. Aren’t these the same flag-obsessed people who claim that if the flag in the courtroom where you were convicted of tax evasion has gold fringe that proves it’s not a valid government courtroom or something? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/73 "2010-02-19T16:33:30Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Aren’t these the same flag-obsessed people who claim that if the flag in the courtroom where you were convicted of tax evasion has gold fringe that proves it’s not a valid government courtroom or something? Indeed they are. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/74 "2010-02-19T16:34:45Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Indeed they are. It’s like political calvinball. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/75 "2010-02-19T16:41:06Z")
[The Master speaks.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1115/is-u-s-income-tax-invalid-because-ohio-wasnt-legally-a-state-when-the-16th-amendment-was-ratified) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/76 "2010-02-19T16:58:41Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Spork thy, Johnny son. Like no one from anywhere else is bad. I really respect you but that’s a bit of a broad brush. > > : ( I knew someone was going to object to that. I did not mean to impugn every citizen of Texas. But Texas is a ‘red state’, and taken as a whole it does have a stereotype (much to the chagrign of the liberals there). The other site I mentioned has some Proud Texans in it. Actually, many of those people are in the Midwest. Drive through central California, and you’ll see similar attitudes. So: I didn’t mean to offend. I was just using ‘shorthand’. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/77 "2010-02-19T17:01:04Z")
Not knowing the details, I wondered why this crash got more pub than the Palo Alto crash with the Tesla folks. Then I heard the why’s and wherefore’s and thought, “Oh, death and taxes…” ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/78 "2010-02-19T17:57:14Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Not knowing the details, I wondered why this crash got more pub than the Palo Alto crash with the Tesla folks. > Then I heard the why’s and wherefore’s and thought, “Oh, death and taxes…” Well, that, and wasn’t the former an accident, and the latter a murder/suicide (and an untypical, fiery one at that)? When I first heard the initial reports on this one, I just felt there was something _hinkey_ about it. ---
**Author:** ![Waffle\_Decider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Waffle\_Decider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waffle_Decider)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/79 "2010-02-20T03:12:07Z")
Well, it looks like [the media](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100220/ap_on_re_us/us_plane_crash_small_planes) has started pondering if general aviation is a security risk. > [@](#): > > Pilots were not subject to baggage checks, metal detector scans or pat-downs. And they are usually not required to file flight plans. Security check is pointless if the airport doesn’t have any airline traffic. I also never quite understand the media’s obsession with filing flight plans. > [@](#): > > At the Georgetown airport, where 240 small aircraft are based, manager McLain said she hopes Stack’s suicidal attack doesn’t lead to an overreaction. > > “I would hope that common sense and cooler heads would prevail,” McLain said. Indeed. Let’s hope one nutcase doesn’t ruin it for everyone. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484/80 "2010-02-20T03:51:29Z")
> [@Waffle\_Decider](#): > > Well, it looks like [the media](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100220/ap_on_re_us/us_plane_crash_small_planes) has started pondering if general aviation is a security risk. > ( And what would a security check or a flight plan do in this case? Honestly, reporters have no clue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/small-plane-crashes-into-building-in-austin-tx/529484.md?page=5)