# Smallpox **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 9, 2001, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415 "2001-11-09T13:05:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RufusB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@RufusB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RufusB)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/1 "2001-11-09T13:05:24Z")
I was always told from my mother (a nurse) that if you had ever contracted chickenpox that you built up an immunity to smallpox. Other sources seem to support my mother. Anyone else ever hear this? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/2 "2001-11-09T14:25:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RufusB \* > \*\*I was always told from my mother (a nurse) that if you had ever contracted chickenpox that you built up an immunity to smallpox. Other sources seem to support my mother. Anyone else ever hear this? \*\* IANAD, but I think that there is a relationship between cowpox and smallpox, but not between chickenpox and smallpox. I’m sure that a more knowledgeable answer will be here soon. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/3 "2001-11-09T14:53:20Z")
The only ones I’ve ever heard of are chickenpox-chickenpox and cowpox-smallpox. (Of course, the first vaccine was against smallpox, and was made from infectious cowpox material; the word _vaccine_ comes from _vaccinia_, cowpox, from _vacca_, cow.) ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/4 "2001-11-09T15:06:36Z")
The column being referenced is: [How long does a smallpox vaccination protect you?(9-Nov-2001)](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/011109.html) I don’t know the answer to your question, **Rufus** , but since you started the thread, I’ve got a comment on the column. Cecil says, > [@](#): > > Smallpox vaccination is effective for about ten years and provides diminishing protection thereafter. I recall hearing a segment on [All Things Considered](http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnpd01fm.cfm?PrgDate=11%2F5%2F2001&PrgID=2) on Monday about smallpox vaccination. While admitting that data on long-term effectiveness of smallpox vaccine were not very available, the segment did refer to a study done in Liverpool about 100 years ago (? I don’t have speakers here at work so I can’t listen to the segment I linked to above, so I’m going on memory here) that demonstrated that smallpox vaccine did substantially increase survival rate even upwards of 50 years after inocculation. Note “substantially increased survival rate” =/= “100% effective,” but there was an impressive difference in survival rates between the vaccinated group (~95%?) and unvaccinated group (~50%?). ---
**Author:** ![King\_Hobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@King\_Hobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Hobo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/5 "2001-11-09T17:37:26Z")
Why do small pox vaccinations leave a scar? It must of been a huge needle, because none of the others seem to. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/6 "2001-11-09T17:47:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by the peasant King \* > \*\*Why do small pox vaccinations leave a scar? It must of been a huge needle, because none of the others seem to. \*\* Nope. [Here](http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v281n22/fig_tab/jst90000_f3.html) is the **Bifurcated needle** that was developed for the vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Hobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@King\_Hobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Hobo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/7 "2001-11-09T17:51:02Z")
From your link it says “The requisite amount of reconstituted vaccine is held between the prongs of the needle and vaccination is done by multiple punctures; **15 strokes** , at right angles to the skin over the deltoid muscle, are rapidly made within an area of about 5 mm in diameter.” Is this the reason for the scar? If I read this correctly, then I assume that the patient was shot 15 times. Well, no wonder. [Bolding mine] ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/8 "2001-11-09T18:08:42Z")
[From this site](http://choo.fis.utoronto.ca/fis/courses/lis2102/KO.WHO.case.html) > [@](#): > > The third major technological innovation was the bifurcated needle. The new freeze-dried vaccine required a different method of presenting single doses of the vaccine. Because the vaccine had to be reconstituted each time and dispensed in tiny quantities, the traditional method of storing liquid vaccine in capillaries was no longer tenable. In developing a new solution, Benjamin Rubin of Wyeth Laboratories worked with Gus Chakros of the then Reading Textile Machine Company in needle design. **It occurred to Rubin that a prolonged needle with a loop would provide both the capillarity activity and the scarification action required** (Hopkins 1989). He suggested the use of a sewing needle in which the loop end was ground into a prolonged fork, creating two bifurcated prongs. A piece of wire suspended between the prongs was designed to hold a constant amount of vaccine by capillarity. By 1968, the bifurcated needle had replaced traditional methods in most countries, and by 1970 it was in use everywhere. Bolding is mine. The scar seems to be a result of actual scarification more than injection, but it seems clear that both methods were required to make the vaccine work. Why that is, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/9 "2001-11-09T18:14:52Z")
The poser of the original question that **Cecil** answered says > [@](#): > > I can’t remember ever seeing anybody with multiples? I have multiple smallpox vacination scars: three, as nearly as I can count, leaving a slight cratering in the skin covering my left deltoid about an inch-and-a-half long. The story I got from my parents is that I jumped the first couple of times they tried to vaccinate me, and they decided to do it again just in case I hadn’t gotten the goods. I just wanted to share. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.One-L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@Dr.One-L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.One-L)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/10 "2001-11-09T18:22:51Z")
When it’s actually a herpes! This is the case for chicken pox. _Varicella zoster_, the causative agent of chicken pox is really a herpes virus and not actually a member of the same family/class of viruses (the aptly named “pox” family) that causes smallpox and cowpox. Therefore, previous exposure to chicken pox will not protect you from small pox. The only thing exposure to chicken pox will do for you is predispose you to shingles later on in life if/when the virus decides to one day pop out of your nervous system where it’s been hibernating and remind you of one of the fundamental characteristics of herpes viruses–they never really go away. FYI The name of the virus represents these two clinical syndroms associated with it–Varicella = chicken pox; zoster = shingles. Michele who is not a medical doctor, but did take a virology course while working on her PhD and for some reason found this piece of trivia interesting enough to retain. ---
**Author:** ![jebert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@jebert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jebert)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/11 "2001-11-09T18:56:15Z")
With respect to multiples, my grandfather had 3 or 4 scars the size of nickels or quarters on his upper arms. He worked on the Panama canal during its construction, so maybe there was some greater danger there. Or maybe multiple vaccination was more common during the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. I have a faint recollection of getting a second vaccination myself, possibly at age 10 or 12, and being told that if it formed a scab, I was still good to go. But I could be confusing that with some other test for TB or something. ---
**Author:** ![RufusB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@RufusB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RufusB)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/12 "2001-11-09T19:11:18Z")
Guess I should have re-checked with my mom before posting. Once someone said cowpox i realized I had crossed two stories in my head (damn you childhood attention span!). ---
**Author:** ![Palouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/67e7ee/32.png) [@Palouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palouse)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/13 "2001-11-09T19:12:23Z")
I have a very faint scar on my left deltoid from my first vaccination back in the early 60’s. However, although I’ve been re-vaccinated at least twice since then (through military service) I’ve never developed any additional scarring. I know squat about medicine or disease, but I’m guessing that the initial scarring results from a local reaction to the vaccine, rather than the physical trauma done by the bifurcated needle. The needle simply doesn’t do that much damage, no more than you’d get from a mild scrape against a rough surface that would cause a small scab. It’s comforting for me to know that I’m probably safe should a smallpox outbreak occur – now if I can just keep from getting wiped out by a drunk driver on my way home from work tonight… ---
**Author:** ![mftkoehler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8dc957/32.png) [@mftkoehler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mftkoehler)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/14 "2001-11-09T23:02:02Z")
The good news about smallpox is that there is a reasonable likelihood that your vaccination is still protecting you, even if it’s been 40 or 50 years. Here’s an interesting article that I thought explained it well: [http://slate.msn.com/?id=2057774](http://slate.msn.com/?id=2057774) Mike ---
**Author:** ![dwtno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@dwtno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwtno)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/15 "2001-11-09T23:12:57Z")
I vaguely remember something about a bad batch of smallpox vaccine making it into the mix and an entire year’s worth of vacinees had to be re-vaccinated. This would have been sometime in the mid to late 60s. Anyone recall this incident and can shed more light onto it? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/16 "2001-11-10T05:40:49Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by zut \* Cecil says, > [@](#): > > Smallpox vaccination is effective for about ten years and provides diminishing protection thereafter… While admitting that data on long-term effectiveness of smallpox vaccine were not very available, the segment did refer to a study done in Liverpool about 100 years ago … that demonstrated that smallpox vaccine did substantially increase survival rate even upwards of 50 years after inocculation. \*\* My wife’s Preventive Medicive Dept. is beginning a study of just this topic. They’ll be drawing blood from volunteers. They’ll evaluate the degree of smallpox protection by some sort of blood test. No doubt other labs are doing similar studies. We should know a lot more about this question soon. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/17 "2001-11-14T18:38:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr.One-L \* > \*\*When it’s actually a herpes! > > This is the case for chicken pox. _Varicella zoster_, the causative agent of chicken pox is really a herpes virus and not actually a member of the same family/class of viruses (the aptly named “pox” family) that causes smallpox and cowpox. Therefore, previous exposure to chicken pox will not protect you from small pox. The only thing exposure to chicken pox will do for you is predispose you to shingles later on in life if/when the virus decides to one day pop out of your nervous system where it’s been hibernating and remind you of one of the fundamental characteristics of herpes viruses–they never really go away. FYI The name of the virus represents these two clinical syndroms associated with it–Varicella = chicken pox; zoster = shingles. > > Michele > who is not a medical doctor, but did take a virology course while working on her PhD and for some reason found this piece of trivia interesting enough to retain. \*\* I noticed you didn’t mention that an adult who has shingles can cause an outbreak of chicken pox in their children. While we’re on the subject of smallpox vaccinations and the resulting scars, could someone please tell me why on earth I have a scar on my right pectoral instead of on a deltoid? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smallpox/92415/18 "2001-11-14T22:10:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > \*\*While we’re on the subject of smallpox vaccinations and the resulting scars, could someone please tell me why on earth I have a scar on my right pectoral instead of on a deltoid? \*\* The location for the vaccination is not universal. Perhaps one of your parents requested that it went on the pec. I have a friend who has his scar on his leg somewhere, because his mother didn’t want him to have a large visible scar.