# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Onyerbike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onyerbike/32/5402_2.png) [@Onyerbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onyerbike)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/261 "2014-07-17T12:05:50Z")
[QUOTE=Smapti] coupled with my own personal observations … and the reasons that authoritarian states tend to fail. [/quote] Forgive me for intruding on your plato like wisdom, but, what you have been arguing for sounds alot like one of those in part. You don’t avoid an authoritarian state by implementing authoritarian policies as a rule of thumb. Although my non government enhanced brain is almost certainly wrong about such non plebian matters and I defer all the critical thinking to the most advanced members of your own species. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/262 "2014-07-17T12:28:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Government intrusion into private business” is an oxymoron. You seem to be confused about definitions. As I noted, our technological experts are doing noble work, for which they deserve kudos from all men of good will and character, toward systematically blocking such intrusions. However, making these misdeeds _practically_ impossible is not synonymous with making them _logically_ impossible; that word you used refers to the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/263 "2014-07-17T12:34:08Z")
> [@Onyerbike](#): > > Forgive me for intruding on your plato like wisdom, but, what you have been arguing for sounds alot like one of those in part. You don’t avoid an authoritarian state by implementing authoritarian policies as a rule of thumb. In my personal observation (without going into a full diatribe on the subject), authoritarian states fail because they try to impose radical social change too rapidly, because they exalt a cult of personality specific to an individual head of state rather than to the state/movement itself, or because they become tied up in anti-intellectual ideologies that exalt peasants or laborers over the rest of society. The fault is not in the imposition of a policy that demands strict obedience to authority (which works quite well in most countries, including our own), but to what end that authority is employed - and it must always be employed towards the ultimate purpose of government, i.e. guaranteeing maximum possible quality of life for the largest possible number of law-abiding citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/264 "2014-07-17T12:35:10Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > You seem to be confused about definitions. As I noted, our technological experts are doing noble work, for which they deserve kudos from all men of good will and character, toward systematically blocking such intrusions. However, making these misdeeds _practically_ impossible is not synonymous with making them _logically_ impossible; that word you used refers to the latter. There exists no business which inherently has a right to be held private from the government. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/265 "2014-07-17T12:50:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Government intrusion into private business” is an oxymoron. This one might just be “dumb statement of the month”. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/266 "2014-07-17T12:55:55Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This one might just be “dumb statement of the month”. Wait until page 7. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/267 "2014-07-17T13:24:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The purpose of government is to protect the rights of the people. In a free society, the only people to have to fear their government are those who break the law. > > Your analogy is false; one accused of a crime is always entitled to counsel because even a just government is not perfect and is capable of making mistakes, and there must always be a process available to remedy those mistakes if they happen. Are you high? I’m serious, are you high? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/268 "2014-07-17T13:31:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In my personal observation (without going into a full diatribe on the subject), authoritarian states fail because they try to impose radical social change too rapidly, because they exalt a cult of personality specific to an individual head of state rather than to the state/movement itself, or because they become tied up in anti-intellectual ideologies that exalt peasants or laborers over the rest of society. In other words, authoritarian states fail because of the inherent nature of authoritarianism (government intrusion upon the private business of citizens), because of basic truisms (a cult of personality is inherently specific to individual persons, by definition), and because of the underlying motivations of authoritarian regimes (to exalt the authority class above the rest of the population). I keep thinking that you couldn’t possibly embarrass yourself worse than you already have, and always you step up to the plate and prove me wrong. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This one might just be “dumb statement of the month”. > [@Smeghead](#): > > Wait until page 7. Alternatively, if **Smapti** were to declare himself a Republican, we could merge two logic-fail threads into one. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/269 "2014-07-17T13:37:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > There exists no business which inherently has a right to be held private from the government. “Business”, being an abstract concept, is not the holder or rights. People have rights, which includes the right to keep all their business private. For practical reasons, certain specific and limited portions of one’s business are delegated out to the hired help – the water pipes to plumbers, the patrolling of the roads to police, the collection of trash to garbagemen, etc. This does have the inconvenience of making it necessary to monitor the hired help and rebuke them if you catch them pocketing the silver or snooping into the files. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/270 "2014-07-17T13:40:48Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Are you high? I’m serious, are you high? No. Perhaps you would be better off inquiring as to why you are so sure of your own beliefs that you believe no sober person would disagree with them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/271 "2014-07-17T13:42:43Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Alternatively, if **Smapti** were to declare himself a Republican, we could merge two logic-fail threads into one. I am a lifelong Democrat and it is personally my belief that we could solve a lot of the problems that exist in America today if President Obama were to exercise his authority under the Patriot Act to declare the Republican Party a terrorist organization, and instruct law enforcement to deal with it appropriately. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/272 "2014-07-17T13:44:34Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > “Business”, being an abstract concept, is not the holder or rights. People have rights, which includes the right to keep all their business private. From other persons. Not from the government. There is no need to hide one’s business from the government unless one is a criminal. And, since you have yourself admitted to remorselessly violating traffic laws and stealing from creators of artistic works, your desire to hide your dealings from the government is understandable, if misguided. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/273 "2014-07-17T13:56:48Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > In other words, authoritarian states fail because of the inherent nature of authoritarianism (government intrusion upon the private business of citizens) False. The inherent nature of authoritarianism is to impose authority. There is no such thing as “the private business of citizens” in reference to the government. > [@](#): > > because of basic truisms (a cult of personality is inherently specific to individual persons, by definition) Which is why I disclaim the idea entirely and believe that in the ideal state, the heads of government should be completely anonymous. > [@](#): > > and because of the underlying motivations of authoritarian regimes (to exalt the authority class above the rest of the population). The underlying motive of authoritarian government is to ensure the freedom of the people. I do not subscribe to the idea that any “class” exists which should enjoy privileged status over another. You appear to be arguing against a state of affairs that I have never proposed and which I would disagree with as much as you do. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/274 "2014-07-17T13:57:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I am a lifelong Democrat and it is personally my belief that we could solve a lot of the problems that exist in America today if President Obama were to exercise his authority under the Patriot Act to declare the Republican Party a terrorist organization, and instruct law enforcement to deal with it appropriately. Now _that’s_ some funny stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/275 "2014-07-17T14:08:28Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Now _that’s_ some funny stuff. Well, yes, it _is_ pretty amusing that the Republicans strongarmed a bill into effect which provides the legal means by which they could theoretically be removed from our system of politics once and for all. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/276 "2014-07-17T14:08:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I am a lifelong Democrat and it is personally my belief that we could solve a lot of the problems that exist in America today if President Obama were to exercise his authority under the Patriot Act to declare the Republican Party a terrorist organization, and instruct law enforcement to deal with it appropriately. Em, you want the government to have unlimited power to snoop into your private affairs _and_ to outlaw and imprison your political opponents, and this is, you believe, the best way to _avoid_ totalitarianism? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/277 "2014-07-17T14:09:27Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Now _that’s_ some funny stuff. Anyone else, I’d think that was humorless hyperbole. But with Mussolini here, I can’t tell if he was serious or not. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/278 "2014-07-17T14:11:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > From other persons. Not from the government. It’s true – we _are_ aliens. But what are you going to do about it? It’s a two-party system. You have to vote for one of us. –Kodos (_The Simpsons_, “Treehouse of Horror VII”. (not a documentary, Smapti notwithstanding)) > [@](#): > > stealing from creators of artistic works OK, the question is settled. We _ **do** _ need blink tags for this site. > [@Smapti](#): > > The underlying motive of authoritarian government is to ensure the freedom of the people. Does Google Translate have Newspeak -\> English, so somebody can make sense of this? > [@Miller](#): > > Anyone else, I’d think that was humorless hyperbole. But with Mussolini here, I can’t tell if he was serious or not. It’s like something **Der Trihs** would post if he lost all his warmth and charm. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/279 "2014-07-17T14:16:39Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Em, you want the government to have unlimited power to snoop into your private affairs _and_ to outlaw and imprison your political opponents, and this is, you believe, the best way to _avoid_ totalitarianism? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/280 "2014-07-17T14:18:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. Sorry, I had a Rick Perry “oops” moment. I meant to say “warmth, charm, and intellect”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=15)