# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/281 "2014-07-17T14:20:32Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > It’s true – we _are_ aliens. But what are you going to do about it? It’s a two-party system. You have to vote for one of us. What good does the existence of a second party serve if said party is _wrong_? ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/282 "2014-07-17T14:26:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. Would it be terribly insulting if I were to doubt your sincerity? I know this is the Pit and all, but I _am_ basically a polite guy. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/283 "2014-07-17T14:31:02Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Would it be terribly insulting if I were to doubt your sincerity? I know this is the Pit and all, but I _am_ basically a polite guy. I am utterly sincere. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/284 "2014-07-17T14:38:37Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Would it be terribly insulting if I were to doubt your sincerity? Why doubt his sincerity? I’m willing to stipulate that he’s sincerely willing to love Big Brother in order to protect his freedom, just as the average Tea Partier is sincerely willing to vote for plutocrat hand-puppets in order to protect his economic interests or the average jihadi is sincerely willing to blow himself up in order to protect his people from the evil Zionist Imperialists. There’s no reason to question his sincerity. The wisdom, perceptiveness, common sense, etc of his stated opinions, sure, go ahead and question those till the cows come home… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/285 "2014-07-17T14:42:07Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Why doubt his sincerity? I’m willing to stipulate that he’s sincerely willing to love Big Brother in order to protect his freedom, just as the average Tea Partier is sincerely willing to vote for plutocrat hand-puppets in order to protect his economic interests or the average jihadi is sincerely willing to blow himself up in order to protect his people from the evil Zionist Imperialists. Two of these things are not like the other. The Tea Partier has been convinced to act against his own best interests by voting for people who profit off his poverty. The jihadist has been convinced to act against his own best interests by killing himself. I act _for_ my own best interests by supporting and upholding a state that is capable of keeping me alive, safe, and free. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/286 "2014-07-17T14:42:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Em, you want the government to have unlimited power to snoop into your private affairs and to outlaw and imprison your political opponents, and this is, you believe, the best way to avoid totalitarianism? > > Yes. Dammit, this is what I get for prematurely declaring something “stupid statement of the month”. :smack: Although you were wrong, **Smeghead** , I didn’t have to wait until page 7. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/287 "2014-07-17T14:43:22Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Why doubt his sincerity? I’m willing to stipulate that he’s sincerely willing to love Big Brother in order to protect his freedom, just as the average Tea Partier is sincerely willing to vote for plutocrat hand-puppets in order to protect his economic interests or the average jihadi is sincerely willing to blow himself up in order to protect his people from the evil Zionist Imperialists. Well, you have to realise that although I’ve been on the SDMB for a few years, I normally confine myself to fatuous comments about soccer and occasional participation in “Ask a Brit a silly question” threads. So I haven’t really encountered this sort of…whatever it is before. I mean, to advocate totalitarianism on the grounds that it is the best way to avoid totalitarianism? I’m kinda stunned by the logic. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/288 "2014-07-17T14:47:35Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Well, you have to realise that although I’ve been on the SDMB for a few years, I normally confine myself to fatuous comments about soccer and occasional participation in “Ask a Brit a silly question” threads. So I haven’t really encountered this sort of…whatever it is before. > > I mean, to advocate totalitarianism on the grounds that it is the best way to avoid totalitarianism? I’m kinda stunned by the logic. Who’s advocating totalitarianism? I am a firm believer in democracy. The problem is that our democracy is under attack by people who would prefer to destroy all we hold dear in the name of their own short-term financial gain, who are exploiting our political system and the freedoms of speech and the press associated with it to further poison the minds of the people and brainwash them into supporting their own self-destruction. Once those cancers have been removed from the body politic, then we will be able to fully enjoy the fruits of democratic society. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/289 "2014-07-17T14:47:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I am a lifelong Democrat and it is personally my belief that we could solve a lot of the problems that exist in America today if President Obama were to exercise his authority under the Patriot Act to declare the Republican Party a terrorist organization, and instruct law enforcement to deal with it appropriately. So, still feeling pretty good about that “calmer and coherent” observation, **Velocity**? If you want to walk it back, I think we’d all understand… ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/290 "2014-07-17T14:53:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Who’s advocating totalitarianism? I am a firm believer in democracy. There is no contradiction between the two, which is why the Founders of the American Republic were suspicious of “democracy”. Their understanding of how easily it could become a pretext for totalitarian mob rule if the government wasn’t kept on a short tight leash was tragically confirmed before the century was over; Madame Guillotine proved to be a fast and efficient remover of “cancers” from the body politic… > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > So, still feeling pretty good about that “calmer and coherent” observation, **Velocity**? If you want to walk it back, I think we’d all understand… Heck, at first even I thought Ron Paul was a cool old guy, until the inner lunacy shone through a bit more clearly. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/291 "2014-07-17T14:57:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Who’s advocating totalitarianism? I am a firm believer in democracy. The problem is that our democracy is under attack by people who would prefer to destroy all we hold dear in the name of their own short-term financial gain, who are exploiting our political system and the freedoms of speech and the press associated with it to further poison the minds of the people and brainwash them into supporting their own self-destruction. > > Once those cancers have been removed from the body politic, then we will be able to fully enjoy the fruits of democratic society. So you would like the government to democratically snoop on citizens at every available opportunity (and a few further opportunities that aren’t _currently_ available but that you hope will become so in the near future) and democratically imprison people who say things you don’t like? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/292 "2014-07-17T14:58:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Two of these things are not like the other. Nope; all three are identical examples of a sucker tricked into giving away his interests on the pretext of preserving them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/293 "2014-07-17T14:59:58Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > So you would like the government to democratically snoop on citizens at every available opportunity (and a few further opportunities that aren’t _currently_ available but that you hope will become so in the near future) and democratically imprison people who say things you don’t like? I would like the government to snoop on citizens at every available opportunity in order to identify and apprehend criminals and enemies of democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/294 "2014-07-17T15:01:00Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Nope; all three are identical examples of a sucker tricked into giving away his interests on the pretext of preserving them. How is being alive, safe, and free against my best interests? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/295 "2014-07-17T15:04:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > How is being alive, safe, and free against my best interests? How is cutting the taxes on the fortune I’m gonna make once the dadgum gummint gets out of the way against my best interests? How is foregoing the chance to earn the eternal favors of seventy-two virgins in Paradise against my best interests? Now, would you like to answer those questions as posited, or would you like to remove the predetermined outcomes from them (no picking and choosing; it must be all three) and reframe them on a realistic basis? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/296 "2014-07-17T15:05:01Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > There is no contradiction between the two, which is why the Founders of the American Republic were suspicious of “democracy”. The “Founders of the American Republic” were millionaire elitists who made their fortune by treating human beings as property, concocted a “revolution” because they didn’t want to pay their taxes, sought out to create a system of government where they would be the only people ever allowed to decide who was in charge and what the laws should be, and convinced the undereducated people to support them with vague slogans about liberty. [Sound familiar?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement) > [@](#): > > Their understanding of how easily it could become a pretext for totalitarian mob rule if the government wasn’t kept on a short tight leash was tragically confirmed before the century was over; Madame Guillotine proved to be a fast and efficient remover of “cancers” from the body politic… And the French were on the right track until they succumbed to the cult of personality and let Napoleon take over and destroy all the progress they’d made. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/297 "2014-07-17T15:06:12Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > How is cutting the taxes on the fortune I’m gonna make once the dadgum gummint gets out of the way against my best interests? > > How is foregoing the chance to earn the eternal favors of seventy-two virgins in Paradise against my best interests? > > Now, would you like to answer those questions as posited, or would you like to remove the predetermined outcomes from the three questions (no picking and choosing; it must be all three) and reframe them on a realistic basis? The low taxes don’t exist. The seventy-two virgins don’t exist. The life, safety, and freedom I currently enjoy _do_ exist. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/298 "2014-07-17T15:08:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The life, safety, and freedom I currently enjoy _do_ exist. There, you see? Da big bad Snowden and da big nasty Greenwald didn’t bring the scarey brown people to kill you after all! > [@Smapti](#): > > The “Founders of the American Republic” were millionaire elitists who made their fortune by treating human beings as property, concocted a “revolution” because they didn’t want to pay their taxes, sought out to create a system of government where they would be the only people ever allowed to decide who was in charge and what the laws should be, and convinced the undereducated people to support them with vague slogans about liberty. Holy carp, I was _joking_ with that Der Trihs comparison… ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/299 "2014-07-17T15:20:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I would like the government to snoop on citizens at every available opportunity in order to identify and apprehend criminals and enemies of democracy. Who defines “enemies of democracy”? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/300 "2014-07-17T17:34:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I am a lifelong Democrat and it is personally my belief that we could solve a lot of the problems that exist in America today if President Obama were to exercise his authority under the Patriot Act to declare the Republican Party a terrorist organization, and instruct law enforcement to deal with it appropriately. But you’re not high. And I should question why I’m so certain that no sober person would agree with your beliefs. Got it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=16)