# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/361 "2014-07-18T21:41:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The right to vote comes with a responsibility to vote rightly. Does it now ? Sez who ? And, perhaps more importantly, who decides what constitutes “rightly” ? > [@](#): > > Those who are not properly educated harm our society by voting. I see. So the problem is that We, The People are the wrong kind of People ? Damn. (BTW, seems to me that were this the case, improving education would be a better and more long-term solution to the issue than yanking votes on the say-so of Übersturmbanngeneralissimo **Smapti**. But what do I know ? I’m not a crazy neo-fascist) > [@](#): > > It was a good start towards crushing the aristocracy and establishing a new egalitarian order. Had Napoleon not subverted the revolution in the Nam of his own dreams of personal power, the world would be a better place today. Not really. The architects of _La Terreur_ saw and hunted down conspiracies and counter-revolutionaries everywhere, real or imagined. A great many imagined ones. Which is a surefire way to generate a whole lot of conspiracies and counter-revolutionaries. In this specific regards, Napoleon’s saner albeit heavy-handed way of restoring the peace actually did bring back order and the rule of law in France. \*He \*didn’t prosecute thoughtcrimes, he just had proven troublemakers immediately shot. Which had a sort of chilling effect, if you will. As for the rest, while he didn’t lack for ego, there’s a case to be made for “pre-emptive self-defence” to quite a lot of his conquests, as Revolutionary France didn’t have many friends among the next door royals. Nappy certainly fell in love with himself and power along the way (very early on, judging by the diaries he wrote while he was making his way from Corsica to Paris at the head of his revolutionary militia), but had he not kicked ass up and down Europe, Europe (Great Britain especially, but the Prussians were not exactly Canadians either) would almost certainly have kicked \*derrière \*up and down metropolitan France in short order. Which, as a Frenchman myself, I’m duty bound to deem a far worse alternative :o. Back on topic : the Revolution was subverted way, way earlier than Napoleon when the bourgeois class wrested the reins of a popular, proletarian uprising into making them the new all-powerful _de facto_ aristocracy. It was bullshit all the way up. Which is probably why guys like genuinely benevolent utopist Robespierre got very, and _terminally_, frustrated with the whole thing. But then they, too (and Lenin… and Mao…) wound up having the wrong sort of People. Odd how that always seems to happen 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/362 "2014-07-18T21:42:43Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Do you prefer to confess to illiteracy, or to dishonesty? > [@Smapti](#): > > Neither. Well, then, you shouldn’t have put yourself in a position where those are the only two options. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/363 "2014-07-18T22:53:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What’s delusional about it? Because the Dems and Reps are fairly similar big business parties. Because they both get chances to put their policies into effect and most people just shrug and move on or don’t even vote because for most practical purposes it barely matters to their lives. Because right now you can visit states run by Dems at every level and, well, they’re not exactly utopias. But if you mean realigning the whole spectrum, nevermind then. Knock yourself out. Ban the Dems while you’re at it. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/364 "2014-07-18T23:32:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The fact that authority can be abused is not an argument for anarchism. The fact that freedom can be abused is not an argument for tyranny. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/365 "2014-07-19T08:31:45Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > (BTW, seems to me that were this the case, improving education would be a better and more long-term solution to the issue than yanking votes on the say-so of Übersturmbanngeneralissimo **Smapti**. But what do I know ? I’m not a crazy neo-fascist) That is the ideal long-term solution. The problem is, first we have to get rid of the people who are opposed to education, because they know that an educated populace would never tolerate their nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/366 "2014-07-19T08:33:44Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Because right now you can visit states run by Dems at every level and, well, they’re not exactly utopias. I live in one. It’s a much better place than our red neighbors to the south and east. > [@](#): > > But if you mean realigning the whole spectrum, nevermind then. Knock yourself out. Ban the Dems while you’re at it. One has to start somewhere, and the Democratic party is far more suited to becoming the vanguard of the people than any other existing organization. Once the people’s enemies have been disfranchised and they’re not afraid of speaking their minds for fear of losing the idiot vote, they’ll be free to get real work done. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/367 "2014-07-19T08:34:59Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > The fact that freedom can be abused is not an argument for tyranny. Who said anything about tyranny? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/368 "2014-07-19T09:33:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Who said anything about tyranny? Hahaha…oh…hahaha… ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/369 "2014-07-19T09:39:16Z")
Could it be that 2 + 2 = 6? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/370 "2014-07-19T12:17:29Z")
I love Big Brother. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/371 "2014-07-19T12:36:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Who said anything about tyranny? [tyranny](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tyranny): tyr·an·ny [tir-uh-nee] noun, plural tyr·an·nies. 1. arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. Synonyms: despotism, absolutism, dictatorship. 2. the government or rule of a tyrant or absolute ruler. 3. a state ruled by a tyrant or absolute ruler. 4. oppressive or unjustly severe government on the part of any ruler. 5. undue severity or harshness. > [@Smapti](#): > > - Winston Smith conquers his petty dreams of rebellion and learns to be a productive member of society, the state saves the life of a dangerous subversive, and world peace is finally within reach. It’s a happy ending. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/372 "2014-07-19T17:07:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That is the ideal long-term solution. The problem is, first we have to get rid of the people who are opposed to education, because they know that an educated populace would never tolerate their nonsense. > [@Claim: the NSA records and stores 80% of U.S. phone calls](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claim-the-nsa-records-and-stores-80-of-u-s-phone-calls/692912/13): > > It is in the people’s best interest to conceal information from them which would cause them to act against their best interest. It’s been nice knowing you, **Smapti**.\* \*No, it hasn’t. Good riddance! ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/373 "2014-07-21T01:58:03Z")
Smapti still hasn’t answered a practical question. Just how does one outlaw the Republican Party as a “terrorist organization” without enormous upheaval and chaos? We’re talking tens of millions of Republicans here. Not to mention the fact that there are numerous Republicans who work in law enforcement and won’t go along with this? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/374 "2014-08-26T12:31:09Z")
I wanted to add [this gem](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17672981#post17672981) from **Smapti**. In a discussion about a police shooting of a mentally ill man with a knife, he asserts that some mentally ill people who act erratically in public should be killed out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/375 "2014-08-26T12:44:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I wanted to add [this gem](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17672981#post17672981) from **Smapti**. In a discussion about a police shooting of a mentally ill man with a knife, he asserts that some mentally ill people who act erratically in public should be killed out of hand. People who assault police officers are asking to be killed. Whether they’re mentally ill or not is of no consequence at that point. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/376 "2014-08-26T12:49:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > People who assault police officers are asking to be killed. Whether they’re mentally ill or not is of no consequence at that point. Mentally ill people who are acting erratically aren’t “asking to be killed”. And even if they were, we should strive to not fulfill their request. But this isn’t even what you said – you said that society shouldn’t suffer them to live. That’s the evil sentiment – that mentally ill individuals should be killed – with such a long and ignoble history. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/377 "2014-08-26T12:53:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Mentally ill people who are acting erratically aren’t “asking to be killed”. And even if they were, we should strive to not fulfill their request. Why? What does society gain from preserving the lives of people who do not wish to live? In an age where we accept the rights of people who want to change their gender, who want to engage in same-sex relations, who want to do all sorts of other things that for decades have been deemed taboo, why should we not accept the rights of those who wish to die? > [@](#): > > But this isn’t even what you said – you said that society shouldn’t suffer them to live. That’s the evil sentiment – that mentally ill individuals should be killed – with such a long and ignoble history. Sometimes the best way to help a mentally ill person is to grant their wish. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/378 "2014-08-26T12:58:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Why? What does society gain from preserving the lives of people who do not wish to live? Mentally ill people who act erratically in public are not acting rationally with rational motivations. In many cases, they can be treated and go on to live fulfilling lives. > [@](#): > > In an age where we accept the rights of people who want to change their gender, who want to engage in same-sex relations, who want to do all sorts of other things that for decades have been deemed taboo, why should we not accept the rights of those who wish to die? Mentally ill people who are acting erratically in public are incapable of making such judgments in that moment, and in that moment they are incapable of making rational decisions about what they want in their lives. > [@](#): > > Sometimes the best way to help a mentally ill person is to grant their wish. Not when the wish is self-harm. The best way to help a mentally ill person is with mental health treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/379 "2014-08-26T13:02:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Mentally ill people who act erratically in public are not acting rationally with rational motivations. In many cases, they can be treated and go on to live fulfilling lives. All the more reason that the desire of a law enforcement officer to see his wife and kids again should trump their inability to operate as human beings, then. > [@](#): > > Mentally ill people who are acting erratically in public are incapable of making such judgments in that moment, and in that moment they are incapable of making rational decisions about what they want in their lives. Then it falls upon the state to make those decisions on their behalf, and when they choose to lunge at a policeman with a deadly weapon, then it seems to me that it’s an easy decision to make. > [@](#): > > Not when the wish is self-harm. The best way to help a mentally ill person is with mental health treatment. So I take it that you are opposed to doctor-assisted suicide in all forms, then? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/380 "2014-08-26T13:06:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > All the more reason that the desire of a law enforcement officer to see his wife and kids again should trump their inability to operate as human beings, then. And they should act with the minimum necessary force, which is very rarely killing them. You stated that society would be better off if the police always killed them. > [@](#): > > Then it falls upon the state to make those decisions on their behalf, and when they choose to lunge at a policeman with a deadly weapon, then it seems to me that it’s an easy decision to make. Not surprisingly, your judgment is pretty way off here. There are ways to apprehend erratic, mentally ill people without shooting them, and those ways should be exhausted before shooting them. In the case we were discussing, those ways were not exhausted – the police could have parked farther way, for example, just to start with. > [@](#): > > So I take it that you are opposed to doctor-assisted suicide in all forms, then? For those with mental illness, yes. There are rational reasons one might wish doctor-assisted suicide, but erratic behavior due to mental illness is not one of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=20)