# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/441 "2014-09-09T17:07:33Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Nonsense. “I cannot answer that question in open session” was the proper response; he chose to perjure himself instead. “I cannot answer that question in open session” is equivalent to saying “Yes”, and thus is not a proper response. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/442 "2014-09-09T17:09:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > A religious lunatic who took a hallucination as a sign that God wanted him to kill all the white people he could find? That’s not exactly an unbiased reading of the circumstances of Turner’s rebellion. But let’s look at some other slave rebellions in the US: [Gabriel Prosser’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Prosser), [Igbo Landing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igbo_Landing), [Chatham Manor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Manor), [German Coast](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811_German_Coast_Uprising), [Cherokee Nation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_Slave_Revolt_in_the_Cherokee_Nation), and [John Brown’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown%27s_raid_on_Harpers_Ferry) – what about these? Were these not legitimate? What was the morally correct way for a slave to behave in the decades before 1860? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/443 "2014-09-09T17:10:25Z")
Dude, you should have put [a United Way update](http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1995-10-02/) or something between “‘Just Following Orders’ is a valid defense to everything” and “Oh, gee, I dunno if I could follow an order to execute someone who had been convicted of a capital crime”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/444 "2014-09-09T17:11:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > MLK and his followers were wrong to break the law. Everyone remember this comment. **Smapti** believes MLK Jr. was wrong to commit civil disobedience. What if civil disobedience was integral to achieving Civil Rights? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/445 "2014-09-09T17:11:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “I cannot answer that question in open session” is equivalent to saying “Yes” Nonsense. It is the proper answer whether the true answer is “Yes” or “No”, and thus is equivalent to neither and conveys no information whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/446 "2014-09-09T17:12:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. Everyone remember this one too – **Smapti** excuses Nazi concentration camp guards, slave overseers, and a million others who have taken part in atrocities over the years of human history. Based on your statements, **Smapti** , you seem to be a dangerous human to be close to. I’m not sure how anyone could ever trust you if they knew you believed these things. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/447 "2014-09-09T17:14:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s not exactly an unbiased reading of the circumstances of Turner’s rebellion. According to the article you yourself cited; [QUOTE=Your own cite] Turner was highly intelligent, and learned how to read and write at a young age. He grew up deeply religious and was often seen fasting, praying or immersed in reading the stories of the Bible… He frequently had visions, which he interpreted as messages from God. These visions greatly influenced his life. For instance, when Turner was 21 years old he ran away from his owner, Samuel Turner, but returned a month later after becoming delirious from hunger and receiving a vision that told him to “return to the service of my earthly master.” In 1824, while working in the fields under his new owner, Thomas Moore, Turner had his second vision, in which “the Saviour was about to lay down the yoke he had borne for the sins of men, and the great day of judgment was at hand.” On August 13, 1831, an atmospheric disturbance made the Sun appear bluish-green. Turner took this as the final signal, and began the rebellion a week later on August 21. The rebels traveled from house to house, freeing slaves and killing all the white people they encountered. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > But let’s look at some other slave rebellions in the US: [Gabriel Prosser’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Prosser), [Igbo Landing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igbo_Landing), [Chatham Manor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Manor), [German Coast](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811_German_Coast_Uprising), [Cherokee Nation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_Slave_Revolt_in_the_Cherokee_Nation), and [John Brown’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown%27s_raid_on_Harpers_Ferry) – what about these? Were these not legitimate? No, because they failed. > [@](#): > > What was the morally correct way for a slave to behave in the decades before 1860? To obey his master. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/448 "2014-09-09T17:14:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What was the morally correct way for a slave to behave in the decades before 1860? Shut the fuck up and pick the goddamn cotton, one surmises. Until Whitey feels good and ready and magnanimous enough to kick your ass to the curb. I’m sorry, I meant give you Freedom. Back. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/449 "2014-09-09T17:15:03Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Nonsense. It is the proper answer whether the true answer is “Yes” or “No”, and thus is equivalent to neither and conveys no information whatsoever. It conveys that to answer the question truthfully would involve divulging classified information. Since the absence of information cannot be classified, an answer of anything other than “No” equals “Yes”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/450 "2014-09-09T17:16:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > To obey his master. This is a vile statement. Another one to remember – to **Smapti** , slaves who disobeyed their masters were behaving in an immoral manner. Think about **Smapti** when you read about the countless slave women who were raped. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/451 "2014-09-09T17:17:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Everyone remember this one too – **Smapti** excuses Nazi concentration camp guards, slave overseers, and a million others who have taken part in atrocities over the years of human history. If a man is shot, you do not imprison the gun. You imprison the man who pulled the trigger. What difference is there between a man who is ordered to perform a task by his superior, and a tool which is employed by its wielder to complete a task? There is none; both are acting on the impulse of another, not on their own conscience or what they would wish to do if allowed to choose for himself. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/452 "2014-09-09T17:18:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, because they failed. For posterity: according to **Smapti** , it was morally wrong and illegitimate for slaves in the US to try and rise up and free themselves by force. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/453 "2014-09-09T17:18:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is a vile statement. > > Another one to remember – to **Smapti** , slaves who disobeyed their masters were behaving in an immoral manner. Think about **Smapti** when you read about the countless slave women who were raped. As I recall, raping one’s slaves was illegal everywhere in the antebellum south. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/454 "2014-09-09T17:18:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It conveys that to answer the question truthfully would involve divulging classified information. Since the absence of information cannot be classified, an answer of anything other than “No” equals “Yes”. This is precisely why the correct answer is “I cannot answer that question in open session” or “I can neither confirm nor deny ” or words to that effect, _regardless of whether or not revealing the actual answer would compromise security_. PTtKUWtC. (Geez, before long “Please Try to Keep Up With the Class” is going to be attached to Smapti-responses as inescapably as “Peace Be Upon Him” is attached to a pious Muslim’s references to the Prophet.) > [@Smapti](#): > > As I recall, raping one’s slaves was illegal everywhere in the antebellum south. [Apparently your history teacher should have tried invoking the mantra:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatment_of_slaves_in_the_United_States) > [@](#): > > Rape laws in the south embodied a race-based double standard. Black men accused of rape during the colonial period were often punished with castration, and the penalty was increased to death during the antebellum period;[46] however, _white men could rape female slaves without fear of punishment_. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/455 "2014-09-09T17:19:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If a man is shot, you do not imprison the gun. You imprison the man who pulled the trigger. > > What difference is there between a man who is ordered to perform a task by his superior, and a tool which is employed by its wielder to complete a task? There is none; both are acting on the impulse of another, not on their own conscience or what they would wish to do if allowed to choose for himself. I’m going to have to go with a big NOPE on that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/456 "2014-09-09T17:19:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What difference is there between a man who is ordered to perform a task by his superior, and a tool which is employed by its wielder to complete a task? There is none; both are acting on the impulse of another, not on their own conscience or what they would wish to do if allowed to choose for himself. One is a tool, which can’t make a choice, and one is a person, which can. Some people actually did disobey orders during various atrocities, and actually saved lives. Disobeying evil orders should be encouraged. You would discourage this, which is morally reprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/457 "2014-09-09T17:19:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For posterity: according to **Smapti** , it was morally wrong and illegitimate for slaves in the US to try and rise up and free themselves by force. They were wrong because they failed. If they had succeeded they would have been right. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/458 "2014-09-09T17:20:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Disobeying evil orders should be encouraged. You would discourage this, which is morally reprehensible. It is not the place of the gun to judge the moral character of that at which it has been aimed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/459 "2014-09-09T17:20:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As I recall, raping one’s slaves was illegal everywhere in the antebellum south. You recall wrong, especially because chattel had no legal rights to resist, nor legal recourse if victimized. A master had the legal right to order his slave into his bed, and the legal right to order her to submit to his advances. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/460 "2014-09-09T17:21:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They were wrong because they failed. If they had succeeded they would have been right. Might makes right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=24)