# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/541 "2014-09-09T19:31:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That they are “lawful” only refers to their relationship with the relevant legal code of the jurisdiction. By saying it is “wrong” for a slave to disobey their master, try to free themselves, or resist a rape, you are making a judgment about the morality of these actions. In what way? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/542 "2014-09-09T19:32:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What are the exceptions? If you are powerful enough to destroy those that insist that what you are doing is wrong, then you become right by default. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/543 "2014-09-09T19:33:33Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Indeed. Daneel was correct. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/544 "2014-09-09T19:33:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In what way? Because you used the word “wrong”. That’s what the word means in this context. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/545 "2014-09-09T19:40:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because you used the word “wrong”. That’s what the word means in this context. I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/546 "2014-09-09T19:42:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you are powerful enough to destroy those that insist that what you are doing is wrong, then you become right by default. I’d ask if you even have a Moral Compass, but I’m pretty sure that if you do, it is completely broken. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/547 "2014-09-09T19:44:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I disagree. You’re wrong. In this context, the word “wrong” refers to the factual accuracy of your statement. In the context you used it – to describe the actions of a hypothetical slave or rape victim – the word was referring to the moral acceptability of the action. If you meant the legality or lawfulness, then you used the wrong word. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/548 "2014-09-09T19:46:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In the context you used it – to describe the actions of a hypothetical slave or rape victim – the word was referring to the moral acceptability of the action. If you meant the legality or lawfulness, then you used the wrong word. I do not acknowledge a distinction between those definitions. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/549 "2014-09-09T19:47:15Z")
OK, I’m getting a distinct sense of deja vu here… Has anybody actually seen Smapti and Sarah Palin in the same room at the same time? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/550 "2014-09-09T19:48:34Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I’d ask if you even have a Moral Compass, but I’m pretty sure that if you do, it is completely broken. And I suppose you assume my moral compass should be aligned to what - the fiats of a magical immortal being that asserts what does and does not please it, as if the idea that divine might makes right is somehow superior to the idea that human might makes right? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/551 "2014-09-09T19:55:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And I suppose you assume my moral compass should be aligned to what - the fiats of a magical immortal being that asserts what does and does not please it The problem is precisely that your “moral” compass is aligned to a magical immortal being (the state) rather than to sound principles. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/552 "2014-09-09T19:57:37Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The problem is precisely that your “moral” compass is aligned to a magical immortal being (the state) rather than to sound principles. The state is neither immortal nor magical. Nor are any principles based on rote opposition to it sound. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/553 "2014-09-09T20:58:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And I suppose you assume my moral compass should be aligned to what - the fiats of a magical immortal being that asserts what does and does not please it, as if the idea that divine might makes right is somehow superior to the idea that human might makes right? Yours is aligned to “Might makes Right”. This is fallacious. We are each responsible for our own actions. Someone ordering us to do wrong is wrong of them, but it is our responsibility and our failure if we do that wrong. There is no excuse in the Universe that makes you right in doing wrong, or even without guilt, no matter who it was who told you to do it. If your boss tells you to kill a hobo that won’t leave your place of employment, and throw his body in the dumpster out back, you are both guilty of murder. It is not his fault alone, nor are you guilt free in carrying out those instructions simply because someone in a position of power over you ordered you to do it. If you persist in being unable to see this distinction, then you are morally and mentally crippled. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/554 "2014-09-09T21:38:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I do not acknowledge a distinction between those definitions. Your acknowledgement or lack thereof doesn’t change how language is used. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/555 "2014-09-09T21:42:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And I suppose you assume my moral compass should be aligned to what - the fiats of a magical immortal being that asserts what does and does not please it, as if the idea that divine might makes right is somehow superior to the idea that human might makes right? Of all the things to align one’s moral compass to, you’ve made one of the worst choices. If we share general assumptions like “genocide should be avoided”, “mass murder should be avoided”, “slavery should be avoided”, “oppression and persecution should be avoided”, then your chosen guide, “might makes right”, is an absolutely terrible one. “Might makes right” has a history of genocide, mass murder, slavery, and oppression and persecution, far more so than (for example) a humanist moral compass. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/556 "2014-09-09T22:36:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The state is neither immortal nor magical. Yes, this is part of the reason why the underlying foundation (elevation of the state to godlike status) of your position is fundamentally defective. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/557 "2014-09-09T22:41:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The state is neither immortal nor magical. > > Nor are any principles based on rote opposition to it sound. Although principles based on rote support for it are, apparently, the bee’s knees, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/558 "2014-09-09T22:41:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you are powerful enough to destroy those that insist that what you are doing is wrong, then you become right by default. There’s a name for your condition. It’s called “sociopathy”. > [@](#): > > Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/) (or sociopathy /ˈsoʊsiəˌpæθi/) is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior. You are mentally ill, and more specifically you have a mental disorder which is heavily associated with extreme violent criminality. Please seek mental health before you kill someone. > [@](#): > > And I suppose you assume my moral compass should be aligned to what - the fiats of a magical immortal being that asserts what does and does not please it, as if the idea that divine might makes right is somehow superior to the idea that human might makes right? [Or, you know, \* basic fucking ethics\*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq2C7fyVTA4). It doesn’t take a dictate from on high to realize, “Huh. I wouldn’t want to be enslaved, maybe I shouldn’t enslave.” ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/559 "2014-09-09T22:56:57Z")
**Smapti** , just want to jump in here real quick. As a secular humanist and a liberal socialist, I don’t agree with your point of view. I find some elements of it frankly abhorrent. But I _get_ it. I really do. I don’t understand _why_ you hold the basic assumptions you do, but I understand what they are, at least. And I understand how you get to your end results from your initial assumptions. I think you’re simply _wrong_, and I’m very glad your perspective is not shared by many of our countrymen. But yanno what? I also recognize that your brand of pure authoritarianism might be the future of mankind, particularly post-singularity. Just not yet. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/560 "2014-09-10T05:50:43Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > [Or, you know, \* basic fucking ethics\*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq2C7fyVTA4). It doesn’t take a dictate from on high to realize, “Huh. I wouldn’t want to be enslaved, maybe I shouldn’t enslave.” Not wanting to be enslaved won’t stop it from happening. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=29)