# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1001 "2014-11-08T21:44:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s taking a lot of effort for me to stay away from this thread, but at the risk of being accused of trolling again I feel like I have to respond to this. Yup, gotta keep the flames fanned up, right troll? I take back the props I gave you earlier. > [@](#): > > Everything I have said about my upbringing is true. Look through my post history if you don’t believe me. (sob story snipped) Not enough money or ibuprofin in the world for that. I’ve already read more of your bullshit than I’d prefer. > [@](#): > > I’m not trying to earn your pity or excuse my opinions. I just don’t like being called a liar. Well, the answer for that is to quit painting yourself as a victim in your pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1002 "2014-11-08T21:49:05Z")
Oh, and a thumbs up to Peremensoe, who just said what I’m thinking much better than I could. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1003 "2014-11-08T22:11:09Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I care about **Smapti** ’s feelings. There, I said it. No claims of moral superiority, no categorical imperatives, just that. I care about everyone here. I care about all the people his stupid ideas might hurt, too. Yeah, I know this is the Pit, but I’ve posted here for years and my love for the Pit is not something that’s going to change any more than my love for humanity in general. What about the feelings of the people who are pitting him? Are we not entitled to express our outrage without being judged by you? Why are his feelings more important than ours? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1004 "2014-11-08T22:14:28Z")
Calling someone “subhuman” because you disagree with their views is pretty reprehensible. It would be terrible under any circumstances, but given what _Smapti_’s said about his upbringing, it’s abhorrent. You don’t believe him? That’s your prerogative, but it doesn’t make what you’re saying any more acceptable. The cartoonish mischaracterisation of his views doesn’t help either. Yes, his views are a bit extreme, but saying that one should obey legitimate authority, or that suicide is wrong, are extremely common views, quite possibly mainstream views. Claiming they show someone is a subhuman outlier is absurdly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1005 "2014-11-08T22:23:02Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You don’t believe him? That’s your prerogative, but it doesn’t make what you’re saying any more acceptable. Bullshit. If one doesn’t believe him, then it appears that he is using victimhood as a shield to hide behind. That’s pretty subhuman in my book. If I thought he was just a stupid and unique whackjob, I’d have walked away by now. It wasn’t until post 890 that I got pissed off enough that I started posting. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1006 "2014-11-08T22:55:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The cartoonish mischaracterisation of his views doesn’t help either. Yes, his views are a bit extreme, but saying that one should obey legitimate authority, or that suicide is wrong, are extremely common views, quite possibly mainstream views. Claiming they show someone is a subhuman outlier is absurdly wrong. Summing Smapti’s extensive body of remarks in the Brittany Maynard thread as “suicide is wrong” is the cartoonish mischaracterization here. He said far more, and far worse, than that. In fact his these there became so absurdly selfish and vile that it became impossible for me to believe that he could believe it all. In other words, I actually became convinced that Smapti _could not_ be as insane and loathsome as _he said he was_. Kind of a benchmark! At this point, I really don’t care what his ‘real’ views are, and I don’t know why anyone else here should. Whatever the exact proportion is, of trollish lies to genuine amoral pathology, the product, the Smapti persona on SDMB, is thoroughly disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1007 "2014-11-08T23:09:05Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > At this point, I really don’t care what his ‘real’ views are, and I don’t know why anyone else here should. Whatever the exact proportion is, of trollish lies to genuine amoral pathology, the product, the Smapti persona on SDMB, is thoroughly disgusting. Like this? > [@](#): > > When people find themselves in situations like this, we ought to be bending heaven and earth and dedicating every resource available to curing their ailment or allowing them to live their life in maximum peace and comfort, not encouraging them to off themselves because we don’t want to pay for it. (I can’t quote properly as it’s from a closed thread). That may be a view you disagree with - I know I disagree with it - but it’s not the reprehensible, subhuman view people make it out to be. Neither is the view that someone’s personal desires are less important than the good of society - almost everyone believes that, the argument is on where to draw the line. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1008 "2014-11-08T23:10:18Z")
> [@Mithrander](#): > > What about the feelings of the people who are pitting him? Are we not entitled to express our outrage without being judged by you? Why are his feelings more important than ours? You’ve had more than enough opportunities to express your outrage. I have no interest in judging you, but it’s kind of hard to stand up for someone without pointing out the harmful actions being done to him. Basically I see it this way. **Smapti** says things that the SDMB community finds reprehensible. Some members of the community drag him out of his virtual home and into the Pit, tar and feather him, and generally make it clear that they think he is one of the worst people in Straight Dope history. It’s arguable that this is what the Pit is for. Social control. But at this point that purpose has been served. An example has been made of him. Now the guy is just on the ground getting the shit kicked out of him. And some members of the community are saying, ‘‘Whoa, maybe not so much.’’ It’s not that your feelings aren’t valid. It’s that you have the power in this situation and he doesn’t. [QUOTE=Mithrander] Bullshit. If one doesn’t believe him, then it appears that he is using victimhood as a shield to hide behind. [/QUOTE] That seems kind of unfair given that post 890 was a response to him being explicitly asked about his childhood apropos of nothing. It’s not like he came running into the thread saying, ‘‘Yeah, I know I have crazy ideas guys, but it’s because of my childhood!’’ I haven’t seen him claim that his childhood is the reason he believes these things. Unless I’m missing something in this behemoth of a thread I feel like that is a connection you are drawing all on your own. And accusing someone of trolling just for responding to their own Pit is ridiculous. It defies human nature to not respond to open criticism of yourself, and if someone was accusing me of lying about my childhood (and they have) I’d sure as fuck be defending myself. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1009 "2014-11-08T23:44:22Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Like this? > > (I can’t quote properly as it’s from a closed thread). > > That may be a view you disagree with - I know I disagree with it - but it’s not the reprehensible, subhuman view people make it out to be. Neither is the view that someone’s personal desires are less important than the good of society - almost everyone believes that, the argument is on where to draw the line. No, **Steophan** , nothing like that. Either you _know_ what I’m talking about and are being completely disingenuous here, or you haven’t gotten to the sick stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1010 "2014-11-08T23:44:44Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Basically I see it this way. **Smapti** says things that the SDMB community finds reprehensible. Some members of the community drag him out of his virtual home and into the Pit, :rolleyes: Oh good lord, that’s fucking pathetic. Look, I came to know of Smapti from his contributions to pit threads, like the one in which he said the kid in Ferguson deserved to be shot, or the myriad other cop shooting threads in which he earned the title of this thread with his fascist views about police. This thread predated the suicide thread, in which he called the girl with a brain tumor a coward. His horrific position is that she was OBLIGATED to endure all the pain she had coming before she died, and for no particular reason. > [@](#): > > tar and feather him, and generally make it clear that they think he is one of the worst people in Straight Dope history. It’s arguable that this is what the Pit is for. Social control. But at this point that purpose has been served. An example has been made of him. Now the guy is just on the ground getting the shit kicked out of him. Yeah, I’d say that over the past couple of months, on a range of subjects, he has expressed about the most vile opinions I’ve read here. If he has also experienced traumatic events, I do pity him for those. But I can feel both revulsion and pity, and will express the former whenever he chooses to share such. Many people go through trauma, and it makes them more sensitive to the suffering of others. Many people go through trauma and it makes them more callous to the suffering of others. He may be the latter. And other people have other excuses for being callous. But callous is callous, and reprehensible is reprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1011 "2014-11-08T23:54:31Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > You’ve had more than enough opportunities to express your outrage. I have no interest in judging you, but \ Never believe anything anyone says after the but. By painting me as someone kicking someone when they’re down, you are flat out judging me. Long ago, I was once hospitalized after being curb-stomped for being queer. I still have scars, both on the inside and the outside. Being called names on a message board isn’t even in the same fucking zip code. Being compared to those fuckers who beat the shit out of me offends me almost as much as the shit Smapti has posted. > [@](#): > > It’s not that your feelings aren’t valid. It’s that you have the power in this situation and he doesn’t. What power do I have that he doesn’t? Did I get made a mod when I wasn’t looking? If you want to claim that’s because the majority is on my side, maybe that’s because I’m not a lying troll. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1012 "2014-11-08T23:56:38Z")
**Smapti** supports slavery and genocide if “authority” demands it. If you want to sum that up as “quite possibly mainstream views” then I have a hard time believing that there’s some sort of middle ground to be reached in discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1013 "2014-11-09T00:19:22Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > No, **Steophan** , nothing like that. Either you _know_ what I’m talking about and are being completely disingenuous here, or you haven’t gotten to the sick stuff. I’ve read the whole thread, and that quote, along with the idea that people sometimes owe it to society to suffer, sum up his views. The only major difference between his views and that of a large amount of the population is that he seems to fully understand the consequences of them, and be fully willing to accept them. Which is certainly better than the moral cowardice that a lot of people have (not anyone that I’ve seen in this thread, though, I’m not pointing fingers). Or do you really think that the view that life is inherently valuable and worth preserving is some sort of rare, unusual, abhorrent viewpoint? I fully agree that **Smapti** takes it too far, but for people to call him sick or subhuman for that is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1014 "2014-11-09T00:46:40Z")
> [@Mithrander](#): > > Never believe anything anyone says after the but. By painting me as someone kicking someone when they’re down, you are flat out judging me. > > Long ago, I was once hospitalized after being curb-stomped for being queer. I still have scars, both on the inside and the outside. Being called names on a message board isn’t even in the same fucking zip code. Being compared to those fuckers who beat the shit out of me offends me almost as much as the shit Smapti has posted. I fully recognize the difference between the horror you experienced and some guy getting insulted on the internet. I apologize for using hyperbolic imagery and don’t blame you for feeling offended. [QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Many people go through trauma, and it makes them more sensitive to the suffering of others. [/QUOTE] Yeah, we’ve all got trauma. This is my prevailing theory on how the fuck I ended up being the one defending the fascist. I feel like I’m being pushed into a false dilemma here. Either I a) Do nothing, thus feeling like shit for caring about people only when they have agreeable views b) Say something, thus being perceived as morally superior/judgmental So I did the latter, hoping people would understand the intent, and overstated my case. What I should have said was that I read the insults first, got my hackles up, and made the initial ‘‘incomprehensible cruelty’’ post. Then I looked into his posting history and understood the level of vitriol better. But I still felt bad for the guy. **Smapti** said these comments were making him all depressed, and I thought saying something in his defense might help him from despairing too much, so I said something. That’s it. I’m sure I fucked it up but please believe I had the best of intentions. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1015 "2014-11-09T00:58:59Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I fully recognize the difference between the horror you experienced and some guy getting insulted on the internet. I apologize for using hyperbolic imagery and don’t blame you for feeling offended. Apology both accepted and appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1016 "2014-11-09T01:05:52Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’m sure I fucked it up but please believe I had the best of intentions. Don’t worry about it. In all sincerity, your’e a good egg, **Spice Weasel**. I’ve also reached the point where my outrage has given way to pity. I can imagine how threatening the world must feel to him. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1017 "2014-11-09T01:23:28Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Yeah, we’ve all got trauma. This is my prevailing theory on how the fuck I ended up being the one defending the fascist. > > I feel like I’m being pushed into a false dilemma here. Either I > > a) Do nothing, thus feeling like shit for caring about people only when they have agreeable views > b) Say something, thus being perceived as morally superior/judgmental > > So I did the latter, hoping people would understand the intent, and overstated my case. > > What I should have said was that I read the insults first, got my hackles up, and made the initial ‘‘incomprehensible cruelty’’ post. Then I looked into his posting history and understood the level of vitriol better. But I still felt bad for the guy. **Smapti** said these comments were making him all depressed, and I thought saying something in his defense might help him from despairing too much, so I said something. That’s it. > > I’m sure I fucked it up but please believe I had the best of intentions. Believe me I get it. Usually, I’m in your spot. I typically loathe pile-ons, so I’m sympathetic. In this case, I was participating in most of the threads that Smapti derailed with his crazy shit, AND his views are really heinous, callous and insensitive to the pain, suffering and death of others. Plus, what person volunteers that they wouldn’t save their kid if it presented some risk to themselves? That just seems gratuitous. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1018 "2014-11-09T01:23:33Z")
Can one even BE bullied on an internet message board? I assume one can just not read the thread if it’s putting them out so much. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1019 "2014-11-09T01:38:43Z")
I feel sorry for the guy, too. I’m on record as pointing out that I think it costs little to try to have sympathy for everyone. But, as long as **Smapti** keeps on interjecting in the cop threads, I don’t think this thread has served its purpose. I realize he can’t force his beliefs to change overnight, but he can stop stirring up shit. And, yes, I understand the desire to deliberately not stop doing the crap people are asking you not to do because people are being an asshole to you. That’s what I did for a while. But I realize it just made things worse on me, and people who before didn’t have a problem with me started to. I know the acrimony of the Pit can make you feel worthless as a person. But you have to realize it’s really all about the behavior. Making you feel bad is intentional–so that you will stop doing the behavior. It might not be the best way to handle all situations, but it is how this board works. To sum it up: if this whole thing depresses **Smapti** so much, it would behoove him to stop posting the way he does in these threads. Just let people get angry at cops. If a counterargument is needed, one will be made that doesn’t actually make the pro-cop side look worse. Because people are not going to stop fighting fascist ideas. And the Pit is not going to stop being acrimonious towards those who push dangerous ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1020 "2014-11-09T01:40:46Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Plus, what person volunteers that they wouldn’t save their kid if it presented some risk to themselves? That just seems gratuitous. [steophan] This view is extremely common, quite possibly mainstream. [/steophan] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=52)