# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/101 "2014-05-22T08:26:36Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Almost all these activities you support are examples of abhorrent behavior on the part of the US in the ‘War on Terror™’ that actually serve to inspire legions of new terrorists while eliminating only a few existing ones… > > Your chances of finding someone who hates America enough to kill you just for being an American are much greater today than they were on Sept. 12 2001. And that is a direct result of all these tactics you support. I don’t see how organ harvesting, vaccination programs, and domestic spying are “creating new terrorists”. Nor do I see why “creating new terrorists” should leave us paralyzed and afraid to act. What’s the alternative - _not_ fight terrorism? If killing terrorists creates more terrorists, then that just means we kill them as well until the trend towards suicidal behavior has been bred out of their population. > [@](#): > > You still stand to lose in a way that is meaningful to you even if you otherwise can rationalize the thought of innocent civilians being burned alive by drone fire or legions of people refusing vaccine programs in their towns as simply being collateral damage. Would that we could simply tell our enemies that we don’t want to have to fight and kill them, and they would simply pack their things and go home in response. > [@](#): > > You are on the idiot side of the argument even when viewing the situation purely as a selfish douchebag. No, it’s idiotic to insist on “privacy” and “public debate” as being sacred be-alls-and-end-alls instead of as means to an end, and not always the appropriate means. It’s idiotic to praise a “whistleblower” for exposing information that hurts our intelligence community’s ability to do its job and which would have harmed no one had it remained a secret. It’s idiotic to cling to antiquated and quaint “rules of war” against an enemy that’s made it clear it doesn’t respect them at all anyway, as if wearing boxing gloves to a knife fight would shame your opponent into following Queensbury rules. It’s idiotic to treat a government agency that exists to serve the public good as less trustworthy than a corporation that exists to make a profit - whether it makes that profit via sensationalist headlines about the Great Satan, or by carving up some nobody who got into a fender-bender because the Senator needs a new kidney and he’s paying in cash. It’s idiotic to brag about how you intend to “sabotage” a government agency that exists for your protection, and it’s ignorant to boast that you’ve created a product so secure that the government will never be able to find out about all the drug deals, child pornography, white slavery, and terrorist attacks you’re using it to plan. It’s idiotic to blame the US government for the way insane conspiracy theorists respond to its actions, or to be afraid that the white-supremacist-coddling Norwegians will think you’re a bunch of meanies if you do what it takes to win. It’s not idiotic to support your government. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/102 "2014-05-22T09:03:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I don’t see how organ harvesting, vaccination programs, and domestic spying are “creating new terrorists”. Nor do I see why “creating new terrorists” should leave us paralyzed and afraid to act. What’s the alternative - not fight terrorism? If killing terrorists creates more terrorists, then that just means we kill them as well until the trend towards suicidal behavior has been bred out of their population. It doesn’t work that way. Just like you are all hopped up to see them burn for fear and anger you feel from the things they or others that you group them together with have done, they want to see you burn out of fear and anger from the things you or others that they group you together with have done. With drone strikes alone, we have already killed as many innocent civilians, many of them children, as died in the World Trade center. That is not even considering civilian casualties from 2 ground wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. At what point did your tiny brain get warped enough to rationalize the murders of 3,000 innocent civilians in collateral damage in a ‘war’ that was ignited by the murder of 3,000 innocent civilians? > [@Smapti](#): > > Would that we could simply tell our enemies that we don’t want to have to fight and kill them, and they would simply pack their things and go home in response. You mean go home to places like Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia? Oh wait, that is where we are killing civilians and duping people into false vaccine programs. Do you mean some summer home they have elsewhere? > [@Smapti](#): > > No, it’s idiotic to insist on “privacy” and “public debate” as being sacred be-alls-and-end-alls instead of as means to an end, and not always the appropriate means. I’m not sure if you’re arguing with me at this point or the voices in your head, but I haven’t said anywhere that public disclosure of intelligence secrets is always appropriate. It is when the bulk of it reveals an intelligence community gone mad. They work for us you impotent snivelling idiot.We give them the ability to operate in secrecy and we expect them to respect certain boundaries. Since their ability to function relies on secrecy, when they cross those boundaries someone in the know has to make it public. It is their patriotic duty to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/103 "2014-05-22T09:18:13Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > It doesn’t work that way. Just like you are all hopped up to see them burn for fear and anger you feel from the things they or others that you group them together with have done, they want to see you burn out of fear and anger from the things you or others that they group you together with have done. With drone strikes alone, we have already killed as many innocent civilians, many of them children, as died in the World Trade center. That is not even considering civilian casualties from 2 ground wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Drone strikes _save_ lives. There’d be a lot more dead right now, Americans and otherwise, if we were still relying on 20th century warfare tactics. > [@](#): > > At what point did your tiny brain get warped enough to rationalize the murders of 3,000 innocent civilians in collateral damage in a ‘war’ that was ignited by the murder of 3,000 innocent civilians? Collateral damage is different from the deliberate targeting of civilians. We don’t do that. They do. > [@](#): > > You mean go home to places like Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia? Oh wait, that is where we are killing civilians and duping people into false vaccine programs. Cite for anyone being given a “false vaccine”? > [@](#): > > We give them the ability to operate in secrecy and we expect them to respect certain boundaries. Since their ability to function relies on secrecy, when they cross those boundaries someone in the know has to make it public. It is their patriotic duty to do so. I see no evidence that those boundaries have been broken. What I see are a bunch of kneejerk emotional reactions to “MY PRIVACY HAS BEEN INVADED” by people who don’t see the big picture and don’t understand what’s good for them. If someone in the intelligence community knows of lawlessness going on, their patriotic duty is to _inform the relevant person in the chain of command so it can be dealt with in a lawful manner._ You know, just like how the NSA dealt with the “loveint” criminals on its own without anyone selling their files to the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/104 "2014-05-22T09:32:25Z")
As others have noted, your opinions are so incredibly weak, cowardly, yellow bellied and pathetic it is pointless to even engage you. There is absolutely no hope you will ever have the spine or moral strength to let go of the safety blanket your little fairytale of lies and rationalizations provides you. Now that reality has been given a voice in this thread for posterity, there is nothing left to do with your contributions but mock them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/105 "2014-05-22T09:45:09Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > As others have noted, your opinions are so incredibly weak, cowardly, yellow bellied and pathetic it is pointless to even engage you. Well, it’s always a lot easier to dismiss an uncomfortably appealing opinion than it is to actually confront it. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/106 "2014-05-22T09:57:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, it’s always a lot easier to dismiss an uncomfortably appealing opinion than it is to actually confront it. It’s been confronted, shot down, and remains a topic only because you insist your delusions are reality. No point in arguing further. Besides you are taking just a wee bit too much interest in your own pitting leading me to believe you are a troll or otherwise attracted to negative attention. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/107 "2014-05-22T10:03:24Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Besides you are taking just a wee bit too much interest in your own pitting leading me to believe you are a troll or otherwise attracted to negative attention. Would you _not_ take an interest in your own pitting? I’m not trolling. These are my beliefs and I do not apologize for them. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/108 "2014-05-22T10:10:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, it’s always a lot easier to dismiss an uncomfortably appealing opinion than it is to actually confront it. Appealing? Sorry to burst that bubble, **Smapti** , but most people _don’t_ jerk off to the thought of bombing civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/109 "2014-05-22T10:16:51Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’ll keep in mind that the fundamental freedoms spoken of in the Constitution are “_life_, liberty, and property”, in that order. Are you aware that you’re quite mistaken there? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/110 "2014-05-22T10:22:28Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Appealing? Sorry to burst that bubble, **Smapti** , but most people _don’t_ jerk off to the thought of bombing civilians. Sorry, I’m afraid you’ve mistaken me with someone who does that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/111 "2014-05-22T10:23:36Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Are you aware that you’re quite mistaken there? Ahem; [QUOTE=The Constitution, Amendment XIV, Section 1] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of **life, liberty, or property** , without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. [/QUOTE] …You were saying? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/112 "2014-05-22T10:31:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So a couple of NSA employees, acting under their own accord and WITHOUT official sanction, authorization, or approval, misused the security apparatus in an unlawful manner, and the NSA caught and disciplined them ITSELF and told the public on its own without anyone “blowing the whistle” on them. > > And THAT’S your argument that the entire organization is hopelessly corrupt and all domestic intelligence is evil? > > That would be like me calling organ harvesting an argument for the abolition of medicine. No, no; that would be like you citing a couple of anecdotes of alleged failure to follow proper procedures as reason to reject an opt-out system of organ donation. Oh, wait… you did exactly that… Well, the “massive hypocrite” thing is already established, so nothing new here. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/113 "2014-05-22T10:43:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Cite for anyone being given a “false vaccine”? The administering of shots claiming to be vaccination program in a way that does not actually work was already described earlier in the thread. Please try to keep up with the class. > [@](#): > > I see no evidence that those boundaries have been broken. I already gave you the term to search, and your own comments belie your attempt to claim that you just haven’t gotten around to doing it yet. Please try to keep up with the class. > [@](#): > > What I see are a bunch of kneejerk emotional reactions to “MY PRIVACY HAS BEEN INVADED” No, what you’re seeing is proper indignation at government misconduct. Please try to keep up with the class. > [@](#): > > If someone in the intelligence community knows of lawlessness going on, their patriotic duty is to _inform the relevant person in the chain of command so it can be dealt with in a lawful manner._ [That has been tried, without success.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/) > [@](#): > > **Q:** Did Edward Snowden do the right thing in going public? > > **William Binney:** We tried to stay for the better part of seven years inside the government trying to get the government to recognize the unconstitutional, illegal activity that they were doing and openly admit that and devise certain ways that would be constitutionally and legally acceptable to achieve the ends they were really after. And that just failed totally because no one in Congress or — we couldn’t get anybody in the courts, and certainly the Department of Justice and inspector general’s office didn’t pay any attention to it. And all of the efforts we made just produced no change whatsoever. All it did was continue to get worse and expand. You may be the sort who keeps doing the same thing while expecting a different result – heck, this very thread is proof enough of that – but the rest of us are not. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/114 "2014-05-22T10:45:45Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Appealing? Sorry to burst that bubble, **Smapti** , but most people _don’t_ jerk off to the thought of bombing civilians. Jerk off _onto tissue printed with a copy of the Bill of Rights_. Attention to detail is essential in gratifying fetishes. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/115 "2014-05-22T10:48:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Ahem; > > [QUOTE=The Constitution, Amendment XIV, Section 1] > No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. [/QUOTE] I suppose having your keyboard burn with fire is less painful than having your tongue burn with fire. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/116 "2014-05-22T11:09:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That was never an option. The CIA wasn’t going to spend its money on vaccination programs with no intelligence benefit. The possibilities were “vaccinate the people and use the program to gather DNA” or “don’t vaccinate anyone”. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > Maybe it should be an option Yeah… maybe they could create some "World"wide thing dedicatied to “Health”… of course, it would need proper “Organization”… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/117 "2014-05-22T11:36:47Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Yeah… maybe they could create some "World"wide thing dedicatied to “Health”… of course, it would need proper “Organization”… Yes, there is such a thing. And yet, it has been unsuccessful in vaccinating everyone. So why you’re so opposed to the CIA vaccinating people as well is mind-boggling. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/118 "2014-05-22T11:39:04Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > [That has been tried, without success.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/) > [@](#): > > William Binney: We tried to stay for the better part of seven years inside the government trying to get the government to recognize the unconstitutional, illegal activity that they were doing and openly admit that and devise certain ways that would be constitutionally and legally acceptable to achieve the ends they were really after. And that just failed totally because no one in Congress or — we couldn’t get anybody in the courts, and certainly the Department of Justice and inspector general’s office didn’t pay any attention to it. So in other words, everyone above them agreed that it was fully legal and constitutional, but they insisted that it must be wrong because _they really felt like it should be_ and so decided that committing treason was the only way to get the supreme authorities on what constitutes the law of the land to acknowledge that the law of the land violates the law of the land. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/119 "2014-05-22T11:41:37Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I already gave you the term to search, and your own comments belie your attempt to claim that you just haven’t gotten around to doing it yet. Please try to keep up with the class. Yes, you gave me the term to search. And the search results described an incident in which the NSA proved to be fully capable of policing its own wrongdoers without anyone resorting to treason to “expose” it. My faith in the ability of the intelligence community has been _strengthened_ by your reactionary pig-headed attempt to associate the entire apparatus with the misdeeds of a few. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/120 "2014-05-22T11:50:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So why you’re so opposed to the CIA vaccinating people as well is mind-boggling. Your next search terms: “war crime perfidy”. > [@](#): > > So in other words, everyone above them agreed that it was fully legal and constitutional, but they insisted that it must be wrong because _they really felt like it should be_ and so decided that committing treason was the only way to get the supreme authorities on what constitutes the law of the land to acknowledge that the law of the land violates the law of the land. Ah… so when one guy tries to convince everybody else and fails, that proves that the one guy is wrong. Hmmm… perhaps we could find a message thread on this board to illustrate the concept… > [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, you gave me the term to search. And the search results described an incident in which the NSA proved to be fully capable of policing its own wrongdoers without anyone resorting to treason to “expose” it. Which prison are they in, in case you want to send them a card? > [@](#): > > My faith in the ability of the intelligence community has been strengthened Well, yes; you do seem the type to regard any and all facts as confirmation of your existing biases. > [@](#): > > your reactionary pig-headed attempt In terms of projection, you are to IMAX what IMAX is to a pinhole camera. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=7)