# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1201 "2014-12-15T02:45:45Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > But jaywalking is. At least in Smapti and Steophan land. Saying that blocking traffic _can rise to the level of_ terrorism, as **Smapti** has done, doesn’t mean that _all_ traffic blocking is terrorism. You really, really suck at either logic or reading comprehension. Or quite possibly both. And no, the holocaust wasn’t terrorism, and neither were the nuclear bombings of Japan. More pertinently, neither was the firebombing of Tokyo, despite being intended to demoralise and cause fear. Can governments or their agents ever terrorise? Sure, if they break their own laws to do so. Governments can, and have, also enslaved, killed and oppressed millions legally without it being terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1202 "2014-12-15T02:54:50Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Forget domestic terrorism. If you want to bring the system to a halt, try driving slow in the fast lane. Add 10 minutes to your lunch break. The center can not hold! I’m sorry, were you saying something? Love, The Falcon ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1203 "2014-12-15T03:31:23Z")
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” - attributed to Edmund Burke. Whoever said it, it’s apt. Those who stand up against unjust laws are the heros. Not terrorists. And Smapti can go fornicate with a cactus. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1204 "2014-12-15T06:50:55Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” - attributed to Edmund Burke. Whoever said it, it’s apt. Those who stand up against unjust laws are the heros. Not terrorists. And Smapti can go fornicate with a cactus. So David Koresh and Tim McVeigh were heroes? Or just people who stand up against laws _you_ think are unjust? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1205 "2014-12-15T07:31:25Z")
Or else I think that one can violate a law without hurting innocents, even if it “inconveniences” others. Like “trespassing and disrupting business”. Or “blocking traffic”. :rolleyes: (If that’s the case, then PennDOT has to be the biggest fucking terrorist organization alive) That and I’m not such a weaselly coward that I wouldn’t risk my own hide enough to unlock a fucking gate to let loose a group of slaves. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1206 "2014-12-15T10:31:51Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Saying that blocking traffic _can rise to the level of_ terrorism, as **Smapti** has done, doesn’t mean that _all_ traffic blocking is terrorism. He didn’t say it could, he said it did. He said that anyone who blocks traffic (later clarified to be without a permit) is a terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1207 "2014-12-15T10:49:17Z")
Calling any traffic-blocking “terrorism” is diluting the term anyway, is it not? Getting stuck in a massive jam is among the most _frustrating_ common experiences, perhaps _infuriating_ for some when deliberately induced,\* but who feels terror? - Though I noticed some New York drivers stopped by “I Can’t Breathe” demonstrations opened windows or got out to express support for the cause. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1208 "2014-12-15T11:33:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Terrorism is a crime. If it’s been sanctioned by the state, it’s not a crime, and therefore it’s not terrorism. If the President does it, then it is not illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1209 "2014-12-15T11:43:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He didn’t say it could, he said it did. He said that anyone who blocks traffic (later clarified to be without a permit) is a terrorist. No I didn’t. I said that anyone who blocks traffic illegally _with the intent to coerce the government into meeting their demands_ is a terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1210 "2014-12-15T12:26:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No I didn’t. I said that anyone who blocks traffic illegally _with the intent to coerce the government into meeting their demands_ is a terrorist. That’s not what you said. But it’s interesting to see you changing your mind about it once again. Maybe you should think about what you post before you hit ‘submit’, considering how often you have to fix yourself about the idiotic things you say. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1211 "2014-12-15T12:42:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So David Koresh and Tim McVeigh were heroes? Or just people who stand up against laws _you_ think are unjust? Which laws were they disputing? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1212 "2014-12-15T13:19:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s not what you said. But it’s interesting to see you changing your mind about it Cite for me saying that all traffic disruptions are inherently terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1213 "2014-12-15T13:21:01Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Which laws were they disputing? The laws prohibiting them from stockpiling weapons and having sex with preteens, and the general authority of the federal government, respectively. Why is their decision to stand up against what they believed to be immoral less heroic than that of the lawbreakers you do admire? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1214 "2014-12-15T13:26:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Cite for me saying that all traffic disruptions are inherently terrorism? You [said](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17962545#post17962545) that all Civil Rights protesters who disrupted traffic were terrorists. You said nothing about any intent to coerce government into acceding to demands. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1215 "2014-12-15T13:27:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The laws prohibiting them from stockpiling weapons and having sex with preteens, and the general authority of the federal government, respectively. Why is their decision to stand up against what they believed to be immoral less heroic than that of the lawbreakers you do admire? Because their cause was unjust, obviously. You’re an alien species – most people intrinsically understand that most humans have a moral system and a sense of justice that extends beyond the law. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1216 "2014-12-15T14:27:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The laws prohibiting them from stockpiling weapons and having sex with preteens, and the general authority of the federal government, respectively. And McVeigh was just protesting the laws against blowing up a building full of people? Fucking moron. > [@](#): > > Why is their decision to stand up against what they believed to be immoral less heroic than that of the lawbreakers you do admire? First, this question reveals your fundamental lack of a functioning adult capacity for sociomoral reasoning. Secondly, you can’t just assert that all people breaking laws are protesting. Finally (and your immature sociomoral development will prevent you from understanding this), where your behaviors restrict the fundamental human rights of others (e.g., life and liberty), they are not heroic. You don’t get to just kill people or have sex with children. Since you won’t understand quite why that is so, just take it on authority. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1217 "2014-12-15T17:05:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You [said](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17962545#post17962545) that all Civil Rights protesters who disrupted traffic were terrorists. You said nothing about any intent to coerce government into acceding to demands. Ahem. > [@The question I was asked that prompted that post](#): > > So the vast majority are not terrorists. By the way, some Civil Rights protests disrupted traffic **and listed demands** (emphasis mine). Were they terrorists? > [@My post that you just quoted](#): > > Yes. If my argument is so weak and idiotic, why do you feel the need to lie about my beliefs in order to attack them? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1218 "2014-12-15T17:07:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because their cause was unjust, obviously. They believed their cause was just. Why is their obligation not to obey laws they believe are immoral not as heroic as yours? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1219 "2014-12-15T17:08:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The laws prohibiting them from stockpiling weapons and having sex with preteens, and the general authority of the federal government, respectively. Why is their decision to stand up against what they believed to be immoral less heroic than that of the lawbreakers you do admire? So you see no moral or ethical difference between peacefully protesting against civil rights violations and driving a truck filled with explosives into a federal building, housing a daycare center, to mark the anniversary of a federal raid you disagree with? There is no common ground I can have with someone who cannot perceive those differences. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1220 "2014-12-15T17:09:00Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Finally (and your immature sociomoral development will prevent you from understanding this), where your behaviors restrict the fundamental human rights of others (e.g., life and liberty), they are not heroic. You don’t get to just kill people or have sex with children. I agree. But _not everyone does_. You can’t assert that people have the right to ignore laws they think are immoral unless that right applies to everyone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=62)