# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1281 "2014-12-15T19:07:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If I’m late, I can lose my job. And if I lose my job for being late, then I’m not going to get unemployment. I’m going to lose my source of income, the healthcare coverage that makes the medication I _need_ to be able to live my daily life affordable instead of costing more than a weekend in Vegas, and unless I can find a new job in short order while having to admit that I was fired from my last job from being late, I’ll soon be out of a place to live as well. > > You’re damn right being late causes me terror. Then you don’t understand what terror is. Day-to-day inconveniences like being late don’t cause most people to experience terror. Only serious threats or risks to life and limb, or the life and limb of those close, cause most people to experience terror. The only time I’ve ever experienced terror was while nearly drowning. Never during my entire time in the Navy, and not even when I was attacked by youths in Honduras. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1282 "2014-12-15T19:07:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. Says me. And my opinion is obviously not shared by the leadership of North Korea, and they’re not going to be dissuaded from their course by my protest. And I’m not going to pretend that my opinion is based in any greater authority than my own say-so. BINGO! Now you seem to get it. That’s how people here feel about certain wrongs that are being committed. They feel fully capable of deciding moral wrongs for themselves and making decision to protest against unjust abuses of power. It’s just a matter of degree- where you draw the line may be different from where I do, but the philosophical concept is the same. I do not need the entire government to be unlawful to decide that some of their actions are unlawful and should be protested against. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1283 "2014-12-15T19:07:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Direct contradiction between two posts by **Smapti** , about what forms of government are legitimate and superior to anarchy: There is no contradiction. I do not believe those governments are legitimate. They believe otherwise. They’re not going to change their belief because of me, because my beliefs are not the center of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1284 "2014-12-15T19:09:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That government is not legitimate. Its citizens (or slaves, as the case may be) are not in my opinion obligated to it. In the opinion of that government, they _are_, and “but Smapti says you’re illegitimate!” is not likely to be an effective defense against accusations of treason. > > I, the tourist, am obligated to the government, because I am a guest and a guest is expected to abide by the customs of their host. In post #1279, I lay out a post in which you said that soldiers, not tourists, in Nazi Germany, must take part in genocide. What you’re saying now contradicts what you said then. Was it right or wrong for Nazi soldiers to take actions that opposed genocide? Would it be right or wrong for a citizen in a country with slavery to help slaves escape in violation of the law? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1285 "2014-12-15T19:10:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Then you don’t understand what terror is. Day-to-day inconveniences like being late don’t cause most people to experience terror. Only serious threats or risks to life and limb, or the life and limb of those close, cause most people to experience terror. Have you ever been homeless? I have. I don’t want to ever be in that situation again. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1286 "2014-12-15T19:11:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If I’m late, I can lose my job. And if I lose my job for being late, then I’m not going to get unemployment. I’m going to lose my source of income, the healthcare coverage that makes the medication I _need_ to be able to live my daily life affordable instead of costing more than a weekend in Vegas, and unless I can find a new job in short order while having to admit that I was fired from my last job from being late, I’ll soon be out of a place to live as well. > > You’re damn right being late causes me terror. If that’s the case, then you should plan better. If this truly causes you “terror”, that is. Try leaving 20 minutes earlier and/or checking traffic reports. Problem solved. We’ve finally won the War on Terror! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1287 "2014-12-15T19:11:57Z")
Here **Smapti** says it is wrong for a slave to try and escape from, or otherwise disobey, their master: > [@Smapti](#): > > You people keep seeing contradictions where none exist. > > In a state where slavery is legal, it is wrong for a slave to disobey their master because the law clearly defines them as property. I do not _like_ that this is the case, and that is why I oppose slavery; however, the fact that the law is the law does not changed merely based on my wishing the law were otherwise, and it would be dishonest of me to choose to believe something I know to be false because the false belief pleases me more than the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1288 "2014-12-15T19:13:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Was it right or wrong for Nazi soldiers to take actions that opposed genocide? In the opinion of the German government, it was wrong. In my opinion, it was right. Guess whose opinion was of greater importance to the average German soldier? > [@](#): > > Would it be right or wrong for a citizen in a country with slavery to help slaves escape in violation of the law? In the opinion of the laws of the nation of Hypothetica, it would be wrong. In my opinion, it would be right. Guess whose opinion would be of greater importance to the average Hypothetican? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1289 "2014-12-15T19:14:09Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > If that’s the case, then you should plan better. If this truly causes you “terror”, that is. > > Try leaving 20 minutes earlier and/or checking traffic reports. Problem solved. We’ve finally won the War on Terror! I do these things. They do me little good when a band of terrorists block the road because they want an innocent man 3,000 miles away to be lynched for an imaginary crime. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1290 "2014-12-15T19:14:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Have you ever been homeless? I have. I don’t want to ever be in that situation again. That doesn’t make your terror (if your feeling on being late truly is terror, which I find highly doubtful) legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1291 "2014-12-15T19:16:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In the opinion of the German government, it was wrong. In my opinion, it was right. Guess whose opinion was of greater importance to the average German soldier? > > In the opinion of the laws of the nation of Hypothetica, it would be wrong. In my opinion, it would be right. Guess whose opinion would be of greater importance to the average Hypothetican? In [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17718754#post17718754), you say that it would be wrong without qualification. You even go on to say that you don’t like the fact that it’s wrong, but you don’t say anything about it being wrong according to the state, while right in your opinion. Your views can’t stop changing. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1292 "2014-12-15T19:17:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Have you ever been homeless? I have. I don’t want to ever be in that situation again. If being late starts a cascade of events that ultimately leads to you being homeless, I don’t think we can lay it all on the feet of the protesters. Here’s hoping there is never an unexpected accident that stops traffic either. It cracks me up if it wan’t so pathetic. My parents are Holocaust survivors. They spent years absolutely terrified of losing life and limb by their own government, neighbors and German invaders. They were terrorized into submission (my mother nursed a broken arm without treatment because had she complained she feared being killed) and watched family and friends murdered all around her, but according to you that wasn’t “Terrorism”. But being late due to some traffic disruption is. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1293 "2014-12-15T19:19:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17718754#post17718754), you say that it would be wrong without qualification. You even go on to say that you don’t like the fact that it’s wrong, but you don’t say anything about it being wrong according to the state, while right in your opinion. > > Your views can’t stop changing. [QUOTE=Smapti] I do not like that this is the case, and that is why I oppose slavery; I do not like that this is the case, and that is why I oppose slavery; however, the fact that the law is the law does not changed merely based on my wishing the law were otherwise [/QUOTE] Ahem. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1294 "2014-12-15T19:19:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. The government of North Korea is illegitimate and its people are not obligated to be loyal to it. > [@Smapti](#): > > In the opinion of the German government, it was wrong. In my opinion, it was right. Guess whose opinion was of greater importance to the average German soldier? > > In the opinion of the laws of the nation of Hypothetica, it would be wrong. In my opinion, it would be right. Guess whose opinion would be of greater importance to the average Hypothetican? This would be a slick way of trying to have it both ways, if you were trying it in front of an audience too dumb to see through the obvious evasion. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1295 "2014-12-15T19:21:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I do these things. They do me little good when a band of terrorists block the road because they want an innocent man 3,000 miles away to be lynched for an imaginary crime. So? That’s not their problem. You figure out how to get to work - it’s nobody’s problem but yours and your employer’s. And if your boss is such an asshole that they would effectively render you homeless for being caught in the midst of a societal disruption, then get a different job. Besides, I don’t believe you. People who are truly in a state of terror would not be so blasé about stumbling upon or remaining in a terrorizing situation. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1296 "2014-12-15T19:22:00Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > This would be a slick way of trying to have it both ways, if you were trying it in front of an audience too dumb to see through the obvious evasion. The fact that I don’t believe the government of North Korea to be legitimate is not going to stop the government of North Korea from acting like it is. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1297 "2014-12-15T19:24:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Ahem. Huh? This is incoherent, and there is no link to click. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1298 "2014-12-15T19:24:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The fact that I don’t believe the government of North Korea to be legitimate is not going to stop the government of North Korea from acting like it is. Do you disagree? Of course not- when did that become the standard we’re talking about? If you lived in North Korea and enough people fought back, then change might occur. However, we are talking about effecting change through civil disobedience here- a long-valued and effective means of promoting social change from the Boston Tea Party to today. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1299 "2014-12-15T19:26:58Z")
Smapti [says](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17718754#post17718754) it would be wrong for a slave to disobey his master if slavery were legal. Then, later, [he says](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17979413&postcount=1288) (in his opinion, for maybe the first time!) that it would be morally right to help a slave escape. Only now does he distinguish right and wrong between government and his opinion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1300 "2014-12-15T19:29:55Z")
[Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17719059&postcount=646), Smapti says he can’t make a decision about whether it’s morally right or wrong for a slave to try and escape without knowing the government’s view. Now he actually gives his own opinion. Can you answer the question now? Is it morally right or wrong for a slave to try and escape from their master? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=66)